AA in UTG

I often read that I never have to enter in a pot just calling with a monster hand, but is it alway correct? Suppose that i am in starting hands (beginning of a sng single table) and I'm in early position or UTG. I think that just call and wait for a 3 bet raise and some other calls allows to me to do 3*3 bet and steal more money in a lot of situations (rainbow flop or blank flop ...) . What do you think about?

Sorry for my bad english .... I'm a spaghetti eater

i personally do not like just calling here because you let too many other hands in that could end up sucking out on you

Always? No. There is pretty much no situation in poker that you will encounter (at least none as broad as what you just said) where there is any one thing that you should ALWAYS do. It depends on the table you're at. If there have been raises nearly every hand, I'd probably limp and then go over the top after a raise. At a table where there have been a bunch of limpers, just raise.

In this position with AA, raise 3x. Much times somebody will pay you and sometimes somebody will push all in. Remeber, you are favorite, but you already don't win. You are playing poker.

I'd so no. If it's a bunch of loose players then definitely raise. If it's a table of nits then a min-2.5 raise might be in order, but not a check.

And if you just call, and someone raises. DONT reraise before the flop.. This play is so well-known already, that like 90% of people will put you on AA/KK its just too obvious..

Sometimes it still can be correct to call and then call the raise, and then donkbet (bet into the preflop-raiser) on the flop.

It still depends on tabledynamics. i.e. on a very loose table, where you expect someone to raise before the flop often. But if you saw that someone before you just called UTG and then the players behind him just called with him, better dont do, because you let marginal hands see the flop very cheap and maybe let them outplay you on the flop.

Lets say you call, and 4 people behind you do so, as same as the big and small blind. Now the flop comes J102 .. You can either be still in front, or already be drawing veeery thin.. they can hold 2 pair, a set, or a strong draw that maybe outdraws you on the turn when you put a lot of money into the pot on the flop..

just my 2 cents..

DEFINITELY!
You have to raise under the gun with Aces.
If you won't you might get called by too many player and won't be able to know what cards they have.
A small raise of about 2.5BB should be good here.

m00 said:

And if you just call, and someone raises. DONT reraise before the flop.. This play is so well-known already, that like 90% of people will put you on AA/KK its just too obvious..

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Obvious or not, this move definitely works at low level SNG/MTT games. I regularly see players call off half their chips preflop with low pocket pairs and worse after being limp-3-bet.

Early going in tournaments, there are a wealth of laggy maniacs who are just interested in getting their KJs involved in a big pot. And late in tournaments, the high blinds make this limp-raise move very profitable, even if you're not called.

That being said, unless the table is regularly raising limpers, I'd much prefer to bet with a big hand in early position.

This play can work out really good or really bad. The trick is to think about how the players at your table will react to this play and what you are trying to accomplish. With AA you are generally happy to play a raised pot with 1-2 opponents, you really don't want any more. If your table is loose passive with lots of callers and few raise, I wouldn't try this. On the other hand if the table is pretty lag and you can expect a raise and a few calls this is a great play because of the dead money thats in the pot when it gets back around to you. You are going to take down a nice pot pf with no risk or you will get to play a big pot with the raiser with the best hand. At a more Tag table you can limp/call against 1 opponent or limp/raise against 2 or more. Against a normal tag you can limp/call pf and c/r their c-bet on the flop. The problem comes when you get a few callers and your playing AA oop in a mulit-way limped pot and that is never what you want. Then this happens you have to be willing to throw your hand away pretty easy unimproved. So if you can't toss AA I wouldn't even try doing this.

Aces are the hand you will win a small pot with or lose a lot with.
If you get them eliminate as much of the limpers as possible.
So I say raise at least 3x the BB, get those weak hands out, the flush draws gone and if you are lucky you will end up heads up against a smaller pair.

Just my 2 cents

Bren said:

DEFINITELY!
You have to raise under the gun with Aces.
If you won't you might get called by too many player and won't be able to know what cards they have.
A small raise of about 2.5BB should be good here.

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You're afraid of getting too many callers so you suggest only raising 2.5 times the BB? I am more on the aggressive side, but even so, this isn't a bet that will get people out. You have to raise at least 3.5 or 4 times the BB from UTG to avoid getting too many callers. That amount is small enough that after one call, other players will start calling just for odds.

I would raise preflop 3x the bb to avoid to much callers.I lost with this hand some many times playing it slow and it never works.

raise under the gun, if you end up check raising you are setting of alarms in your opponents head, if you get called by everyone you are likely to get beat.

I agree that the limp/reraise is usually KK+ at lowstakes but I will use it at a certain stacksize. If I have ~8-10 bbs left then a 3x raise utg is going to look very strong and a shove may be too much to get any callers. Anything less and I'd push, anything more and I'd raise normally.

I'll only do this if I think its very likely someone will raise...so if I get another limp, then a raise or a raise and a call before it gets back to me thats ~6-8 bbs in the pot so I don't care if its obvious what I have. I am happy to take it down there to almost double up or have someone call because they think they have pot odds. Even if I get two callers I'm probably ~70% to triple up plus.

...btw a 3bet is a reraise after a raise not a 3x raise.

i would call preflop if you are at an aggressive table that often has three or more people to the flop but would def raise enough to keep people from folding but having to put in more money and seeing the flop.... then move your chips in depending on the flop and your opponents

Tx all for the answers, but there is a point of my question I want underline:

Suppose that i am in starting hands (beginning of a sng single table) and I'm in early position or UTG

If it is, I can't know how is the table and how are my apponents (TAG, LAG and so on) ... then I'd like to know your opinion in that situation.
Tx in advance!I Like this Forum

I think that in this case when you don´t know your opponents, i´d rather call than get into something that would ruin my stack. There will be plenty of time for pre-flop raises if your still in the game. Just too risky for me.

I think just calling with AA in early positon is the best option.
And if someone raise then you should make a reraise.
In so doing you have for sure a big pot!

I would throw a raise out there.

Early in SNG you don't have much to go on for the reads. So I definitely would play it straight and place a raise to identify the hands you are against by value.

If you want any value for your aces you will have to narrow the field a bit, thus why I would raise. Keep in mind if you raise from UTG everyone else should already expect you to have something worth betting from that position. A few might put you on a long range of cards and call, but most would fold to a raise from UTG. So you wouldn't to go all in, but maybe bet 4 or 5 times BB will show enough strength that you can correctly identify your opponents by what they call or raise with.

Personally, I prefer a 3x to 5x raise UTG with AA, simply because early in a tourney with no reads on my opponents, I am almost assured someone with AK or AQ will either call, or come over the top of my raise, and probably won't let it go no matter what after putting that amount of chips in the pot. Though, if it is already apparent that it is a tight table, 3x will do the job. I see no value in limping or even the "donkey min-raise" as this just give opponents more of a chance of cracking your hand with junk. I'd rather raise and just win the blinds than limp and lose a large pot to 10 6os.

Bad position will bring tears - even to a glass eye.

Hi all,

Lol, I absolutely loath this position but for some unknown reason I tend to get a lot of decent hands here. I think it's the poker gods having a laugh or something. AQ here can be a death sentance.... but maybe thats for another post....

O.k. you've got AA UTG - i'm assumung at a 10 seater. Two thoughts go through my mind straight away. 1. Yes! The nuts preflop - gotta love it! 2. I'm in a terrible position and need to be carefull I don't get myself into trouble.

My strategy is simple:
You raise about x4 the blind (or even more depending on the table environment). NOTE: By raising this much, a calling/reraising hand should be defining itself so that you have an idea what he could have. This is very important if your out of position. He could be being tricky of course.... but you need to at least try.

One could ague that this telegraphs your hand away to a very limited range and you'll not make much money on it. Well that would be true if you play about a 5% vpip, but I wouldn't recommend playing that tight. You need to mix it up a bit. If say you raised utg with a wider range with a few nice pairs, suited broadways etc SPARINGLY just to mix it up people will implicitly take note what you've shown utg. This is simply because when everyone sees an utg raise, this sets alarm bells ringing and they pay special attention. They especially go out their way to take note of your cards. I've known a lot of players demand to see players cards who try to muck them without showing in this position in a showdown... People tend to remember these type of situations because its an out of the ordinary event. This is so powerfull, if you're cards are running dry, and on a relatively tight table, try putting in a big raise UTG with nothing. It's even a good place to bluff - although any resistence is an immediate fold and run like mad. There's a good chance that you'll take the pot down. (I'm not advocating this as a standard method of play. More like a cheeky experiment if your deep stacks w.r.t the blinds.)

Ideally, what are you trying to achieve with your x4 raise? You're trying to get a caller who you can isolate and get a heads up situation and you've got him dominated.

If no one calls and you take down the pot, should you have slow played? Have you missed a slow play opportunity?
Hhhhnmmm not really - be gratefull for the small pot and move on. I think you can only make some decent money by getting some money into the pot into the first place. If they all fold around to you, they would have been very reluctant to get any money in the pot anyway.

If you slow play you're actually giving them the opportunity to get involved but the trade off is that they could actually be drawing to a hand. Guess what? A drawing hand will beat your aces. So you stand a decent chance gonna get into trouble unless you spike trips or something.
Now that's the best case!


Worse than that, you can get a caller, and then suffer a chain reaction of callers behind him due to pot odds. By the time it gets to late position, someone might decide to take a pop at a steal and raise big/ raise all in since everyone has limped in. This could be with a hand like JcTc which is a typical type hand that could beat you. Others could follow suit....

Even worse than that, yes it can be worse, everyone at the table limps and noone raises. We get to see a flop very cheap and I can gaurantee you're heading for the rail if you continue.

Now, assuming your limp was done with the intention of hoping someone would raise so you could:

1. Reraise - this would then expose your hand as one of huge strength - a limp, a raise and a reraise. Do you think you'll make a lot of money with the remainder of the hand - IF it all goes well.?
Moreover, assume you made this play against someone who thought 'hhhmmm he's got a good hand, possibly something like AA,KK,QQ, JJ, AK, AQ here, but I have position.' He could still pay to see the flop to see if he hits it hard. Why would I want to pay a lot of money into the pot against this type of hand? Because if I have a hand like 55 and trip up, your stacks coming my way.... Even suited connectors or whatever. Its all position position position. With the correct hand, the implied odds can be massive. Does that sound daft? Here's a scenario (one of many):

Your utg:AA, I'm Dealer with 88. You limp, I raise x3, you reraise x3 for example. I think you've got AA or KK bu can't be sure. Are you playing me? I don't think so but I've seen a lot of strange things in poker.... I'm heavily deep stacked so I call your reraise since Im on the button and my impled odds are large and justify the call. The flop comes 8h9h2d.
I now have position, with trips and since I've got an idea what you have I can use that to try to get the maximum of your stack.
You probably think your aces are good and I've missed the flop. Since I called your reraise I could have something like AK, KK, QQ and all that jazz. There's even the possibilty, since I'm on the button, I'm being clever with a suited connector and drawing to a straight. You're probably eager to get paid so put some $$ in the pot, or whatever.
If I raise you could think I'm bluffing, or betting into a semi bluff flush draw or a lot more. I'm odds on to take you down. You could of course get lucky....

2. Call, with the intentions of disguising your hand - the flop could totally destroy you. If the flop comes 7h,8d,9c you bet and someone goes all what do you do? Basically, either he has the nuts and beats you or he has a bluff and is leveraging your poor position... can you call that? What do you do if the flop comes Kc Th Td?

I suggest that with your aces you want:
1. Heads up with a dominated hand like AK or KK etc. NOT something thats a drawing hand and plays well in multiway pots like a suited connector.
2. At the VERY least narrow the field down to one or two players. Ideally because of your position 1 player only.

It isn't the strength of your hand you should be attentetive of here - it's your position. Aces are easily beat against a group and out of position this can be very expensive. This is the reason you have the term 'standard button raise'. Such is the power of position in nl, people will raise the button with almost any cards.

Of course I've idealised my situation examples but this is for clarity to get the point across. Poker is never simple.

Hope that helps.
Paul

OKay... I haven't read thru all the comments on this.. just the first ones. He writes "beginning of a STT". Personally I would never limp in from utg in early levels of a sng w AA. It is in the first handful of hands that you find the loose agg & loose pass players,.. many just calling EP limpr, or flat calling a raise and then more callers behind.
I'd most often open with a standard raise... and in opening levels it'd be 3x.
As mentioned above... the limp in EP and then 4-bet shove is a pretty hugely over-used play. I think near beginning of sng you can really run the risk of having a handful of other players calling behind your EP limp. Also if you're playing below $20, I think you can most definitely count on someone giving you action if it's the first few hands especially (there'll be 2 or 3 players on the table who aren't even aware that a utg rs. is a sign of strength).
I also like to keep in mind, the table image I'm portraying (so if I limp EP... then when I raise 3x ... gd chance I don't have AA?). Early in a sng is where I'm getting alot of reads on my opponents (putting them on more likely ranges etc.), stuff I'm using later in the game.
I'd consider limping or min-raising perhaps later in game if you've got a player or two who are continually, loosely 3-betting preflop. (almost all the time though, I'm opening with a stnd raise)

well say if there is 5 people in the pot im going to bet and not let a someone out draw my As with 10 9 or some other rag hand

well said by bbigg. i would bet high. the last thing i want is for my pocket rockets to get beat with a hand like 10 9 or 89 or 78. cards like that. those cards have a better chance of beating AA than higher pocket cards. make the great hands play with you pre flop, so the connectors and low suited hands fold.

If this is a low limit SNG I might push all in pre flop. If I'm lucky some will call with AK/AQ Otherwise I pick up the blinds and everyone thinks I'm an idiot which should be useful later.