Can a 90/45 player be a smart one

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zdm

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Yesterday in a session a player 90/45 drive other players crazy. people like to play with him, thinking he is a idiot. But after he won 400bb, I am not sure if he is really a fish,as he maybe loose preflop but he is not that loose after flop.
He 3-bet 40% 4bet 26% preflop AF2.31,when he all in the only loss is against me ak vs KK.
Everytime he bet large afterflop he won, I am sure it includes many semibluff, but he just won. Do you think it is because he had some luck that night, or this can be a winner style.
most time he bet large afterflop people fold, I wonder if he is just lucky or he is a good hand reader.
the only big bet he made and go to show down is this: he 3bet preflop, flop 9TJ, bet40bb, villain all in he called, villan aa, he hold QTs, catch a Q on the turn. From that I know he can 3bet light and semibluff large. But I think he play very well here, aggressive and call with the odd.
 
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I hate him already :) I know the type and I also wonder some time. I just had a session with an agro player as well, and I lost 3BI to him in all in. If I got straight he got flush. If I had flush, he had house and so on. Very annoying. I also suspect he knew what he was doing.
 
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zdm

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That is why I feel frustrated because I am not sure if it is right to fight back. I do not care about loss,if he has lucky, I am ok with it. I care about if I make the right decision.

I am sure I will see this kind of annoying guy later, do I need to be aggressively fight back? Or if it is just giving money away.
I hope I can get he answer. If not, it will really get you uncomfortable when facing them.I hate thet feeling when you play poker.


I hate him already :) I know the type and I also wonder some time. I just had a session with an agro player as well, and I lost 3BI to him in all in. If I got straight he got flush. If I had flush, he had house and so on. Very annoying. I also suspect he knew what he was doing.
 
LD1977

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He is a drooler who just got into God mode for a while.

You can't play post flop unexploitably with ATC range.
 
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zdm

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That is what get me frustrated. He definitely play restrictly afterflop otherwise even he has lucky there is no way he can make great pressure on everyone else. As I said there is only one hand to showdown when he bet big, and he did well in this hand.

Othertime no one has the gut to call, even though everyone eager to play with him preflop. He must find some exploitable method at that point.
That makes me think if I did not bluff big when I should do. This can be a good weapon.

He is a drooler who just got into God mode for a while.

You can't play post flop unexploitably with ATC range.
 
Thinker_145

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Obviously if I were forced to play a 90/45 game just for the heck for it I wouldn't be anyway near as bad as you would generally assume a player like that to be. But I would still nevertheless spew left and right. I have seen time and time again such players building a massive stack but more than 90% of the times they give it all away if they stick long enough.

So basically the point is 2 players with nearly the same basic stats can be vastly different skill wise.

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Thinker_145

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And as for beating such players well simply stick to ABC there is no way around it. You also need to pay attention to their game to find out clues about when they potentially have a strong hand or not. Betting amount is generally the most important piece of information you can use to find their pattern which such players generally have one.

And remember if you are not getting the cards or not hitting the flop with your lesser hands then there is just nothing you can do about it. Never ever try to "make a play" against such players.

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crazyforchips

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He is LAG (Loose Aggresive). Many worldclass poker pros play this style too. But, if you choose to play this way, you gotta know when to not take big raises.
 
Thinker_145

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He is LAG (Loose Aggresive). Many worldclass poker pros play this style too. But, if you choose to play this way, you gotta know when to not take big raises.

No world class player plays 90% of the hands.

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crazyforchips

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No world class player plays 90% of the hands.

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Being a LAG doesn't mean you have to play 90% of the hands. LAG mean playing 25%+ hands.
 
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He isn't a lag, he's just playing ATC. There's the possibility he's a Viktor Blom type of poker genius, but it's very unlikely. It's not even a matter of the perceived expected value by his range, but the amount of hands he plays out of position, regardless of adjusting to his opponents or balancing his range.

It's more about players tilting and playing a wider range against him and being out aggro'ed, then tilt, and play an even worse range dying to break even. AND get lucky from time to time to stack off. Don't be afraid to fold huge amount of equity on reverse implied odds spots and exercise a lot of shoving for value and you'll be fine.
 
Thinker_145

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Being a LAG doesn't mean you have to play 90% of the hands. LAG mean playing 25%+ hands.

So? I replied to your assertion that the player in question is a lag and that world class players are also lag. I am saying that no world class player plays like the player in question.

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I do not think he is great but he definitly did not that spew afterflop. He bascially play fit or fold when he has nothing most of time. But he bet large when he has draw or something. Most time people quit, when they get to showdown this guy maybe lucky that day to catch the draw.
I have to admit his semibluff is good. He did not loose too much when fit or fold, but he won a lot when semibluff or all in. Half luck and half good strategy.

He isn't a lag, he's just playing ATC. There's the possibility he's a Viktor Blom type of poker genius, but it's very unlikely. It's not even a matter of the perceived expected value by his range, but the amount of hands he plays out of position, regardless of adjusting to his opponents or balancing his range.

It's more about players tilting and playing a wider range against him and being out aggro'ed, then tilt, and play an even worse range dying to break even. AND get lucky from time to time to stack off. Don't be afraid to fold huge amount of equity on reverse implied odds spots and exercise a lot of shoving for value and you'll be fine.
 
LD1977

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You need to turn on PokerStove or Equilab and see what 90% range looks like and if it is profitable to play fit-or-fold/aggro style.
 
TeUnit

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they can only be good if you let them

that style is very exploitable, just requires some patience
 
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if the rest of the playes on the table are 6/4 Nits and Fold most flops its printing money $$$
 
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I've come across this type of player from time to time. They can be annoying, especially if you are trying to target someone else and they keep 3 betting you.

Wet boards are your friend here. Why? because while they semibluff you can push them around if you can see that that's what they're doing. Take the q 10 hand you mentioned earlier. He had 8+3+2=13 outs, which is basically a coin flip vs that AA.

The question then becomes, would he do the same with worse than that? Dunno.

Another thing worth mention is that this type of player is wonderful to have around since they tend to pay you off more when you catch your hands. Since this guy is pretty fit or fold postflop, you will often catch this when he's semi-bluffing. Yes, he will have outs to beat you still (most likely) but you can make sure you have the edge. Take your Q10 vs AA example. After the flop he had 13 outs to beat the Aces, making it basically a coin flip. But what instead of aces the guy had 2 pair or a set or queens?

There's more variance with these guys, and it takes waiting for a proper hand to fight them with. If this one is smart enough to have a fit or fold strat then it might also be possible to read his postflop play to see when he doesn't have much (float), though that can be risky.
 
Snakmacher

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He might also use special non-prohibited software that calculates the % chances of his hand to win.. It cannot be just "luck" - I would estimate it on 80% chance that he uses some kind of software + is skilled enough to count outs as well.. Those software pricy .. saw one that demanded 35 USD monthly per use and it even used some general sites statistics in what kind of play is "searched player" good at...
 
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He might also use special non-prohibited software that calculates the % chances of his hand to win.. It cannot be just "luck" - I would estimate it on 80% chance that he uses some kind of software + is skilled enough to count outs as well.. Those software pricy .. saw one that demanded 35 USD monthly per use and it even used some general sites statistics in what kind of play is "searched player" good at...

LOL
 
Thinker_145

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One doesn't have to be even remotely good to win a big session of poker.

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yonosemanana

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Every once in a while you got to fight aggression with aggression.
 
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As the above poster said, you have to fight aggression with aggression. I can triple barrel bluff shove, so in a battle of wills your folding.

Maybe not the smartest way to go about it, I do it at times too. Not that high a VPIP though. Being super aggressive to get them to fold, while controlling your loses when they do not is very key. When I get into that mode of playing, if I am all in and going to showdown, I have a lot of equity or very close to the nuts already, if not the nuts. Your AK hand, bet you was very surprised when he popped up KK huh? I admit its donking a bit, and if he is like me, you thought he was a total donk. Which is only partially true, its donking, but with a plan, and thinking...

Stat wise you can tell by as you said, high VPIP, high 3 bet, high aggression. However, went to showdown will be low and won at showdown will be low with big wins, or high went to showdown is hgh and won at showdown will be small loses and big wins. Be careful when this is the case. If I am doing this, and I am pretty sure you raise with AA/KK/QQ, I am cold calling every time. I nail the flop, your stacking off. Sort of set mining with ATC. While if overs come I am trying to push you off your hand. I dont nail the flop, I am not getting all in with you. Then you see the trash, and reaffirms the donk image.

I have a thread from 6 years ago on here, the SS's are gone, a comment says I was running at 62% VPIP and I won 2/3rds of the pots, and my OP stated "Managed to lose little when losing while managing to get paid off every time I had it." Which, like I said, is a very key component to playing like that. Another where I was 1250 BB's deep on to two tables. I am sure that was a time I was playing wild as well. With a nitty image, everyone would just fold.

I do not do it often, there are times. :) It is fun, even though it can be the best way to lose cash fast.
 
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