99,TT,JJ is very dangerous

K

kworm2013

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99,TT,JJ is very dangerous.Sometimes we earn small money ,and lost large money.How could this bad situations be prevented?
 
Cafeman

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I thought this couldn't be true, I just filtered this year for JJ/TT/99 and have 770 hands for a WR of 229bb/100. They are winners for me!
 
micromachine

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How are you losing money with these hands? Are you getting yourself into big pots with them postflop when you have an overpair? Are you going all in preflop with them?
 
S93

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The only problem you have with 99-JJ Is called selective memory.
 
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redwards92

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JJ seems to be a hand where I'm either up against a higher pocket pair or getting it in and getting 2 outted. Never play jacks for lots of money is my own personal thing lol.
 
Cafeman

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Again, I know it's a small sample, but JJ is a good winning hand, no doubt about it.

71014662.jpg


What are you guys doing to lose?
 
LD1977

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It is tricky in tournaments if you go All In, gets called by AK/AQ a lot and that is not great.
 
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kworm2013

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In cash game,for example,I have TT,flop is 4,8,K, he call 3BB,so I think it is pair of KK with small opportunities,and then will lost very much.
And as LD1977m said,in tourmament,we all in ,JJ gets called by AK/AQ,like TT get called by AK--QJ.If more than 1 people follow,small opportunities to be alive.
 
Rappyness

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Such hard hands to figure out! Sometimes, you want to milk it and then sometimes if you do it doesnt work out and it bites you in the ass! Sometimes it depends on the situation on how I would play those hands. Its just really hard to pin point a specific move on what to do when you have those hands!
 
Cafeman

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This is the cash game forum, and I don't know anything about tournaments except that they're boring and most people who play them are even more hopeless than us cash gamers.

In cash game,for example,I have TT,flop is 4,8,K, he call 3BB,so I think it is pair of KK with small opportunities,and then will lost very much.
We raise pre and someone calls and we have position? Unless you are balancing, you don't have to auto cbet that flop right? Especially if villain is the type that will ONLY call with at least a K. Just a thought.

Its just really hard to pin point a specific move on what to do when you have those hands!
We're not making moves, we're value betting or calling vs wide ranges or whatever.
 
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kworm2013

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This is the cash game forum, and I don't know anything about tournaments except that they're boring and most people who play them are even more hopeless than us cash gamers.


We raise pre and someone calls and we have position? Unless you are balancing, you don't have to auto cbet that flop right? Especially if villain is the type that will ONLY call with at least a K. Just a thought.


We're not making moves, we're value betting or calling vs wide ranges or whatever.
yes,that is not often happen,he is hit the pair of KK,but when it happen,if we make up our mind to fold,so we lost big money,That is why I said it is easy to lost big money.Offcause, I agree,in long term,the money we earn is more than we lost when have 99/tt/JJ.But if that is a good way to avoid the bad situation happen,that is better.
 
kidkvno1

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The only problem you have with 99-JJ Is called selective memory.
+1 to this.
Poker tracking software will show a win rate with 99-JJ.
 
needaGF

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I know what problem you have with 99-JJ man. You call an allin with them and your opponents hit their overcard on the board to bust you out.
 
NineLions

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In cash game,for example,I have TT,flop is 4,8,K, he call 3BB,so I think it is pair of KK with small opportunities,and then will lost very much.

99/TT/JJ are good hands, and you should be winning money with them. If not, post some actual hands.

In this example you made up, you don't tell us if you raised preflop or called his raise (or maybe that's what you meant), and who has position, and what your read on the other players is (loose, or aggressive, or tight?), which will give us hints as to what range of hands he might be holding.

If you bet, and he has a K, then yes you are building the pot for him. But if you bet and he has A8 or 22, then you are building the pot while you are ahead and he may call the flop bet as well.


If you want to avoid all risk, snap-fold preflop except for set-mine calls. That's the only way to make it work all the time. Otherwise, it's just not that simple.
 
Jd0ubl3M

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Or it can be very good esp. if you hit a set with them when A K Q hits the board or you can still make money if it doesnt come up and have the pocket pairs.
 
Cafeman

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Or it can be very good esp. if you hit a set with them when A K Q hits the board or you can still make money if it doesnt come up and have the pocket pairs.

I definitely agree that sets are good.
 
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Topic title makes me think of Darkwing Suck.

Let's. Get. Dangerous.
 
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you hit a set what..one in eight times? I always raise 3xBB with 10's or J's, playing 8 handed if you get a few callers and you see an over card I consider myself doomed most of the time especially if solid players are in the pot with likelihoods of broadway cards. If the flop isnt draw heavy and lconsists of low under cards, a decent sized c-bet will get rid of your AK's and AQ's etc. 9's and 10's I dont have much of a WR with, JJ's sure, theres always alot of action preflop at my cash game so I wait till somebody else raises and I reraise for a chance at a headsup.
 
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lagalot and other friend,I ask you another question,you(JJ pair) raise 3xBB,the competitor reraise 3x3xBB,Do you fold,do you afraid of (QQ,KK,AA)?
 
micromachine

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lagalot and other friend,I ask you another question,you(JJ pair) raise 3xBB,the competitor reraise 3x3xBB,Do you fold,do you afraid of (QQ,KK,AA)?

That would depend on your seat, your opponents seat, whether you are in position or out of position, how tight you play, how often the 'competitor' 3bets, and how deep your stacks are.

All of those things will affect whether folding, calling or 4betting is best.
 
atlantafalcons0

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lagalot and other friend,I ask you another question,you(JJ pair) raise 3xBB,the competitor reraise 3x3xBB,Do you fold,do you afraid of (QQ,KK,AA)?

What are the blinds, positions and the stack sizes?
 
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like the poster above said, do you have JJ's in early, mid, late position? playing deep stacks? whats is your opponents position and stack size? is he a solid/loose player? out of position against a loose player and low stacks I'd like to bet and go all in. I played JJ's in position against a tight player today, the player had 3 bet and I called, the flop hit an Ace, and 2 low cards and he bet 3/4 pot, I folded , he had Kings, was surprised the Ace didnt scare him. We both had a little over 80BB's remaining post flop
 
Cafeman

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Just played this hand and thought of you lot.


IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

BTN: $11.16 (111.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $21.64 (216.4 bb)
BB: $25.72 (257.2 bb)
MP: $7.79 (77.9 bb)
CO: $3.99 (39.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T
spade4.gif
T
club4.gif

MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB folds, MP calls $0.65

Flop: ($2.10) 4
diamond4.gif
4
club4.gif
A
club4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: ($2.10) 5
diamond4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $2.10, Hero calls $2.10

River: ($6.30) 5
heart4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $4.69, Hero calls $4.69

Results: $15.68 pot ($1.04 rake)
Final Board: 4
diamond4.gif
4
club4.gif
A
club4.gif
5
diamond4.gif
5
heart4.gif

Hero mucked T
spade4.gif
T
club4.gif
and won $14.64 ($6.85 net)
MP showed 7
heart4.gif
K
spade4.gif
and lost (-$7.79 net)


Cos when an A flops they always have one right? ;)
 
EvertonGirl

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Yea that is true when the A appears they want you to think hey I have an ace or two. I would of been worried about that 4s when I seen that flop but I would of known he had not hit them when he only checked.

You read the situation very well. I can't believe that donk would play his hand like that knowing he has not hit anything, he is playing it like it is a freeroll :D
 
sam1chips

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Just played this hand and thought of you lot.


IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

BTN: $11.16 (111.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $21.64 (216.4 bb)
BB: $25.72 (257.2 bb)
MP: $7.79 (77.9 bb)
CO: $3.99 (39.9 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T
spade4.gif
T
club4.gif

MP raises to $0.35, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB folds, MP calls $0.65

Flop: ($2.10) 4
diamond4.gif
4
club4.gif
A
club4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: ($2.10) 5
diamond4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $2.10, Hero calls $2.10

River: ($6.30) 5
heart4.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $4.69, Hero calls $4.69

Results: $15.68 pot ($1.04 rake)
Final Board: 4
diamond4.gif
4
club4.gif
A
club4.gif
5
diamond4.gif
5
heart4.gif

Hero mucked T
spade4.gif
T
club4.gif
and won $14.64 ($6.85 net)
MP showed 7
heart4.gif
K
spade4.gif
and lost (-$7.79 net)


Cos when an A flops they always have one right? ;)

Just a note about the above hand is that they were not playing the tens like they were the nuts (ie, not betting the flop, and just check calling the rest of the way). If they raised there, you are really only getting called by something better than a pair of tens, and then you're just donating money.

By the way, nice hand cafeman :)
 
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