700 Hand Play Analysis

SeaRun

SeaRun

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Total posts
697
Chips
0
This is the 700 hands I've played since starting to use the trial of PT4. I know 700 hands is a very low sample, but it's already (I think) shown me some gaping leaks in my game. Information below is my own view of my play from the graph and stats available to me by PT4. While I know some members have given me advice on numbers previously, I wanted to start with PT4 with a baseline of where I was, so while I may not have exactly adhered to your advice, there's a reason behind my madness.

I welcome comments and corrections to my thoughts, and if I have a misunderstanding of something, feel free to correct me.

CIzl54O.png


At this point, my stats are:
  • VPIP - 28.88 <<I know this is high>>
  • PFR - 13.38 <<In relation to the VPIP, where should this be?>>
  • Total AFq - 61.62 <<This number seems high, comments??>>
  • WTSD % - 23.78 <<Reviewing my own play in my mind, This tells me I'm getting out of a lot of pots before SD, win or lose. What's a good point to aim for?>>
  • WSD - 33.33 <<I think this number is low, and is an extension of the problems I'm playing, as indicated below. Thoughts??>>
  • 3-Bet PF - 7.73 <<I think this tells me I'm playing too many hands out of position, but not sure.>>
  • Fold to 3-Bet PF - 69.57 <<Again, I think an extension of the number and quality of hands I'm playing.>>

OK, it's obvious I'm playing way too many hands, playing too loose, and I need to tighten my range.

From the graph above, I've taken 7 big hits to my bankroll. I'm still up cash, but it could be better, a lot better. I see a few reasons for this:
  1. Wide range of starting hands getting me in trouble too often both pre and post-flop
  2. I am having trouble getting away from big hands where after the hand is done, I can see I should have folded at some point. I.e.: P-Js or P-Qs against a TAG player with an overcard on the flop.
  3. Being afraid to CF or CR. Maybe it's an ego thing, but I have to get over it.

Now, smarter play by playing less hands and being more careful SHOULD help in cutting down on those big dips in my bb/100. However, because I know I've been very lucky in some of my big winning hands, I know these will be cut back too. Somewhere between where I am and where I want to be is a happy medium, the challenge is finding it.

So, that's my self-analysis after a small sample. As always, I welcome thoughts and advice.

Jamie
 
hashtag

hashtag

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Total posts
142
Chips
0
PFR should be just above the 20%. Your VPIP is okay. It depends on your style.

AFq is okay, but what value is your Aggression Factor? This is also important.

WTSD is a little low, but nothing to worry about due to your low sample so far. WSD should be between 50 and 60. Really though, get about 10000 hands to have an accurate idea on those two before judging.

3bet % is okay depending on the circumstances. It means you are reraising light preflop a bit too much. You want your 3bets to carry some weight with the other players. If it goes too high, they start to call you more often and you'll find your AA involved in more multiway pots than you would like, for example. Between 2-5% would be okay.

Your red line looks good. I take it you are cbetting and stealing and generally being aggressive post flop? Looks like you just need a little work on when to fold and your blue line will be also. Good work.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
Your gap between VPIP and PFR is far too wide. You limp in and/or limp behind and/or call open-raises too often - more than half the hands you voluntarily play.

Your VPIP is also somewhat on the loose side, more so if you're playing full ring.

It's not impossible to be a winning player with stats like these, but it requires superior post-flop skills than playing fewer hands and therefore being stronger on average when you do play.
 
micromachine

micromachine

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Total posts
5,770
Chips
0
A few comments:

- Too big gap between VPIP and PFR.
- Total AFq is on the high side, not necessarily a bad thing but you might think about reigning in the aggression somewhat to improve your blue line.
- WSD is low, which may reflect your aggressive style, but I don't think 700 hands is enough for this to mean anything.
- 3bet PF is fine anything from 5-10% is good
- Fold the 3bet PF is also fine

I would concentrate on closing the VPIP/PFR gap. Are you playing FR or 6max? Typical decent TAG stats would be around 22/17 for 6max and 17/14 for FR.
 
SeaRun

SeaRun

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Total posts
697
Chips
0
Thanks for your posts with great comments and advice.

Yes, I am playing Full Ring, all $0.01 / $0.02.

The description below I know will change over time as my luck does with the cards, it's just so frustrating right now. But I'll claim a victory I haven't tilted yet.

Now, today so far I played 590 hands, and still getting beaten up on good hands by donks.

An example is I had P-As on the bb, I raise 20 bbs and UTG calls (He is playing nearly every hand and has a VP of higher than 60 and a PF of like 25). Flop comes 8-10-6 rainbow. I bet 45 bbs, he raises me all-in, I call. Turn is a 4 and the river is a 7. This idiot is holding a 9-3 of clubs. What do you do?

Today I had P-As twice for a net loss of 820 bbs, and P-Ks once for a loss of 540 bbs. Lucky for me I only finished the day down 83 bbs.

My VPIP is higher only and PFR is down to ~ 9, both measured for today only. But limping and hitting the flop is how I got that cash back today for the most part. The number of times today I limped from good position with a small pair or OOP with a medium pair and flopped a set is amazing. Also, limping with medium - high suited connectors or middle suited A, or weak suited A or low middle suited connectors in good position, and hit on the flop, astounds me.

Over the 1408 hands since I started using PT4, I've had P-As 9 times for a net loss of 876 bbs. Same number of hands, I've had P-Ks 9 times also for a net loss of 40 bbs.

Over those 1408 hands, my biggest wins have come from (in order highest win down with table position noted) 8-8 (MP), K-9o (MP), 5-5 (MP), Q-J Suited (BB), 5-5 (BB), K-J Suited (BTN), K-8o (BTN) and Q-10 (MP) Suited and J-J (CO).

Now, the 2 paragraphs above tell me 2 things:
  • I obviously have to study how I'm playing big hands, 'cause I'm sure as hell shagging it up.
  • I have to play like a donk to win any money, which I don't like.

Over the same 1408 hands, I have a net gain of a whole 3 bbs, which when you take into account the way I've been jerking the monster hands, I can't complain about.

So my plan is to study and read more, and play my way through it.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
It all depends on your opponents. I read up somewhere that if the tables all full of nits you should actually LAG it up. :)

But also another good thing to do if your at a table full of nitty regs... simple solution, change tables and if you can't find a better table just log off for the day :) or play at another time where theres some fishies or maniacs.

Lastnight I was playing with the nits and I actually became more nittier than the nittest lol... took an hour to get about half a buy-in it was really a grind and I thought it was a good waste of time.
 
micromachine

micromachine

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Total posts
5,770
Chips
0
Searun, about the big PPs - you say you mud be playing them wrong but it could also be that your sample size is tiny and you were simply unlucky with them so far, certainly there is nothing you can do in the hand you describe where villain had 93 except laugh and tag him as a fish. Post hands if you are unsure if you are playing premiums correctly. About you second point "I have to play like a donk to win any money" - You really don't, this is a bad way to think. 2nl is crushable with solid abc poker
 
SeaRun

SeaRun

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Total posts
697
Chips
0
I guess patience, some study and listening to advice is paying off. (Again, I realize still only small samples, but I think it's giving me some good feedback, and I'm getting more comfortable with a new way of playing.)

Not much time to play yesterday, got 646 hands in with improving results.

jibwM0Z.png


VPIP here was 18.93 and PFR was 6 (still needs to come up), but the graph is much flatter than before with only 2 bad hits, one for 43 bbs and the other for 32 bbs (bad beat with KK), but I'm slowly learning to get away from good hands when required.

I had AK Suited in one hand in on the button, 2 limpers before me and raised to 10 bbs. BB called (VPIP of 9 and PFR of 6 with 100+ hands on the HUD), 2 limpers folded. Flop was dry with 2-6-9 rainbow, I CB 10 bbs and BB raised to 25 bbs. I folded and thought it was the right play.

Over this time I had P-As X 2, P-Ks X 1 and AK X 9, with the only 2 losses in those 12 hands noted above.

Micromachine, like I said, I don't want to play like a donk but when that's the only hands I'm winning with, it gets frustrating. (Not like I'm telling you something you don't already know.)

As always, thank you all for your advice and explanations.

Jamie
 
SeaRun

SeaRun

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Total posts
697
Chips
0
Your gap between VPIP and PFR is far too wide.>>>>SNIP

Too big gap between VPIP and PFR. >>>>SNIP

OK, I just played a lunch time session and was thinking about this.

From my understanding of the relationship between the two, I should be raising nearly every time I enter a pot preflop in late position?

Is that correct?
 
micromachine

micromachine

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Total posts
5,770
Chips
0
No limping and less cold calling (3bet or fold instead) will close the gap. This applies to any position, not just late position.
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top