6-max questions

What kind of adjustments should I make on my hand selection for 6-max games? I enjoy six max because there is more action but I feel way too nitty compared to most of the players.

Let's start with general assumptions:
1. You raise UTG with a far wider range of hands and fear the UTG raise less than at full ring.
2. Three-betting and 3-bet stats are far more important as there is far more 3-betting in 6-max. At full ring or tournaments I would automuck AQ to any reraise that's not all-in because with most full-table play this is a hand that is crushing AQ. At 6-max that's probably not the case -- how far down can I go? AJo? ATs? Or is it better to continue after 3-bet with a hand like JTs/76s?
4. I assume we call 3-bets more often IP and fold to 3-bets more OOP. And that we should loosen up our three-bet requirements when facing an active button or SB. Also, how often do we 4-bet OOP vs. an aggression button?

My general rule of thumb is: I three-bet from BB vs. SB or Button quite liberally. I am 3-betting any PP vs. Button and AT+.

Some people take positional play too far -- yesterday a BB shipped 60 BBs over my 4-bet on the BTN with TT (I had AA).

I think an important stat we need to use more of is "fold to 3-bets." I saw a someone fold four straight steal attemps from the button vs. a BB three-bet. The next round I limped UTG with 65s and three-bet his raise from the button and he autofolded.

I suppose some of these questions are unanswerable but what I'm asking is the whole point that we are playing the player and position more in 6-max and our cards become less important?

I've been looking at my stats (which aren't great, btw) and a titanic percentage of my earnings are still coming from winning the occasional monster pot with AA/KK. Another sign I'm too tight/tourney minded?

baudib1 said:

Let's start with general assumptions:
1. You raise UTG with a far wider range of hands and fear the UTG raise less than at full ring.

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This isn't exactly true. Mostly people loosen up in position, rather than in all positions. Sure, I open many more hands UTG at 6-max, but an UTG open still means considerable strength.

baudib1 said:

2. Three-betting and 3-bet stats are far more important as there is far more 3-betting in 6-max. At full ring or tournaments I would automuck AQ to any reraise that's not all-in because with most full-table play this is a hand that is crushing AQ. At 6-max that's probably not the case -- how far down can I go? AJo? ATs? Or is it better to continue after 3-bet with a hand like JTs/76s?

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3-betting is important, yes. I fold AQ to some 3-bets, and some 3-bets I call with 87s if we are deep enough. Its just too hard to put a specific 3-bet calling range with me, but it certainly depends on the opponent.

baudib1 said:

4. I assume we call 3-bets more often IP and fold to 3-bets more OOP. And that we should loosen up our three-bet requirements when facing an active button or SB. Also, how often do we 4-bet OOP vs. an aggression button?

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You skipped 3. But um, yeah, all this is so very villain dependant. If you want a 3-betting article, read here: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/move-beyond-hand-chart-3-bets-133959/

baudib1 said:

My general rule of thumb is: I three-bet from BB vs. SB or Button quite liberally. I am 3-betting any PP vs. Button and AT+.

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I rarely 3-bet ATs & AJs. They have too much value in normal sized pots & they fair poorly in 3-bet pots OOP. Any pair is debatable as well. Not to mention that this once again depends on your opponent's steal %, 3-bet call %, ect.

baudib1 said:

Some people take positional play too far -- yesterday a BB shipped 60 BBs over my 4-bet on the BTN with TT (I had AA).

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Not uncommon being only 60 bb's deep.

baudib1 said:

I suppose some of these questions are unanswerable but what I'm asking is the whole point that we are playing the player and position more in 6-max and our cards become less important?

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Ya.

baudib1 said:

and a titanic percentage of my earnings are still coming from winning the occasional monster pot with AA/KK.

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Good cards are still good cards... just now playing 6-max, no one gives you credit for them.

I would say any PP vs. the SB. 88+ vs. the BTN and just call with the rest.

Why would it be better to 3-bet 99 vs. button, but just call with 22? (This question is meant to provoke debate).

Well to the obvious: It's a better hand. And if called is playable on more boards where villain may make second-best hand (we have overpair or sets more often when villain has top pair or SD). Whereas 22 is unplayable without improvement?

baudib1 said:

Well to the obvious: It's a better hand. And if called is playable on more boards where villain may make second-best hand (we have overpair or sets more often when villain has top pair or SD). Whereas 22 is unplayable without improvement?

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1) How much would you value 99 as an over-pair in a 3-bet pot?

2) In a 3-bet pot does it make a difference whether you've made a set with 22 or 99?

3) If you were going to make a bluff catcher middle pair type hand, would you rather do it in a small pot, or a big one.

4) Do you think you are getting implied odds to set mine against a reg who raises 45% of his hands on the button?

You are right and I was thinking of the problem of unnecessarily bloating the pot but I am also assuming that BTN raises light so often we have good fold equity against much of his range -- and 99 is a healthy favorite over AK/AQ on most flops. If called and leading out/cbetting most flops it has to be +EV as villain will miss and/or not have an overpair the majority of the time, no?

BTW, I finished third in a large-field 6-max MTT recently, but I've found that ring is wayyyyy different. I played much tighter than everyone else and it seemed to work well....

baudib1 said:

I am also assuming that BTN raises light so often we have good fold equity against much of his range

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baudib1 said:

If called and leading out/cbetting most flops it has to be +EV as villain will miss and/or not have an overpair the majority of the time, no?

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I think you made two key statements here. But you need to realize, both of these things (fold equity preflop & when you c-bet the flop) has nothing to do with the cards you are holding.

If you c-bet a flop with 99 or 22 in a 3-bet pot, and get called, you pretty much have to shut down unless you have a set, or some other flop that is very favorable for your hand. The difference between the two is that 99 actually has good showdown value against a button raiser's range, but it doesn't fair well against a 3-bet calling range (unless that 3-bet calling range is very wide).

There's a pretty standard theorum (started on "another forum you post at") that says there are 4 classes of hands:

1) Class 1: Hands strong enough that you can bet or raise for value, and villain will call with worse often enough.

2) Class 2: Hands that still have value against villain's range, but betting folds enough of his range away so that there's not value in betting.

3) Class 3: Hands that have some equity against villain's range, and these hands should be turned into bluffs if we have fold equity.

4) Class 4: Hands that have no value, and should be folded.

The classic situation of a hand that falls into class 2 is KK on an A72 board. Its a simple WA/WB situation, and you can't really bet the flop as all worse hands fold and all better hands call. But your hand still has a lot of value, so its too good to fold to 1 bet, or turn into a bluff.

I think hands like 99, KQ, KJs, AJ, ATs fall into this category of class 2 when the button raises. When we 3-bet these hands, most of the time, we fold out all worse hands, and get called by all better hands. Sure, we have initiative, but we're out of position with a hand that is an underdog against the button's range. There's a lot of potential for us to get bluffed off of the best hand, or for us to put a ton of money into the pot badly, because the hands we make with these starting cards aren't super strong.

Obviously, this changes when the button opens up his calling range a ton, or we can squeeze the small blind at the same time. But that's not very typical.

I still think that the button is 3-bet calling a lot with KQ, 88, 76, JT, etc.

but your points are well taken. So we should 3-bet with AK, TT+, 22, JT, 98 and call with AJ, AT, 99?

baudib1 said:

I still think that the button is 3-bet calling a lot with KQ, 88, 76, JT, etc.

but your points are well taken. So we should 3-bet with AK, TT+, 22, JT, 98 and call with AJ, AT, 99?

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This totally depends on their % to steal, and their fold to 3-bet stat, but yes, in general you want to call with hands that have value postflop against their range.

And I prefer to flat with suited cards like AJs, or KJs. With no initiative, and being out of position, we really need to hit a large number of flops in order to continue. That suitedness makes about 10% more flops that we have enough equity to continue on. But even then, we'll only be flopping enough equity to continue about 45% of the time.

But yeah, like I wrote in the 3-betting post, against some super nits you can't really 3-bet AQ for value. Against other players, you can 3-bet AJ for value, because they're just not going to fold any of their stealing range which is super wide.