6-max NLHE Micro Stakes: How should I adjust my open ranges and bet sizing VS limpers

ZenAndPoker

ZenAndPoker

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So I'm playing a fairly LAG style (27%/22%) at the micros and am having good results so far, but I'll be the first to admit I am just starting to really study GTO play. This is a new concept to me so I still rely heavily on the exploitative play style I've developed over the last 15 years of playing versus players who play too many hands, passive or aggressive it doesn't matter to me I have counters for both, and players that don't know when to fold, which is why I feel comfortable open-raising a larger range and being slightly loser in my calling against preflop raises.

What I am trying to learn how to balance is my open raising ranges and bet sizing when there are limpers ahead of me. I know poker is a highly situational game so for simplicity lets assume I'm on the button, where my range is widest, at your standard online micro stakes 6-max NLHE with 1 TAG regular playing 20% or less of his hands, 3 loose-passive fish with VPIPs between 30-70% and one aggro-fish with about a 50/30.

Lets say tag is LJ and aggro-fish is in my blinds because for some reason I swear to god they're always to my left, and one or both of the passive fish limp.. what kind of hands do i want to raise here versus call versus fold..

My thought process goes like this in these situations: First, I want to counter limpers strategy. They have a hand they obviously like enough to want to see the flop but not enough to raise, could be anything from AQo to medium to low PP to suited connectors to Axsuited to J-4o.. I naturally want to make a much larger raise than normal for a few reasons, to generate fold equity vs the blinds, get value preflop if my hands is better than theres, have a chance to take down the blinds right there which is always great, and because I have position on them which is like a multiplier for the edge that I already have on them before the cards are even dealt, that I can out-play them most of the time.

That being said, I've found that if I follow conventional wisdom of 3x bb +1bb/limper I don't get folds very often. I get more fold equity jacking that sucker up to 6-9-bb usually, and a lot of times I still get callers, but not as much. However this feels like absolute murder to my ROI if I'm doing this with any hand that's part of a 47% open-raise range. If I get called I'm probably behind in equity vs most callers here, if I get 3-bet in the blinds I have to dump the hand in most cases, and there is a surprising amount of light 3-betting at the micros these days, and the pot is significantly larger on the flop.

None of this good when your open raising range on button consists of 87o and Q7s haha..

So, I'm assuming, to be balanced, with each added limper I probably need to tighten my open-raising range up, and consider folding the really marginal stuff outright and just calling with the lower suited connectors and pocket pairs that don't usually have much equity post-flop if the board doesn't drop low. However if I don't open-raise it, there's a good chance, not always, but still enough of the time to warrant consideration, that one of the blinds will at the very least make a large raise to try and scoop the pot right there and if there's one thing I hate worse than having to open-raise with marginal hands, its call with marginal hands. So if I just call on btn there's a good chance I could be facing a large raise and one-2 callers by the time it gets back to me. sometimes no callers and that makes pot odds to call with lower hands even worse.

Can anyone provide me with a more in-depth GTO analysis on what to do here? I've read that bet-sizing is extremely important the wider your range, which is why I'm almost always open raising either 2.5xbb or 3xbb. But I like to play an aggressive and exploitative style, and if my opponents are willing to pay 7-9bb preflop then fold when I bet 2/3 the pot on flop 50% of the time or more I'm more than happy to print that money. I just worry about what to do when I've got uber calling stations who rarely fold, and also I want to understand all this better so hopefully I can make sure I'm not exploited myself as I move up in limits and encounter better players.
 
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Spewster

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So I'm playing a fairly LAG style (27%/22%) at the micros and am having good results so far, but I'll be the first to admit I am just starting to really study GTO play. This is a new concept to me so I still rely heavily on the exploitative play style I've developed over the last 15 years of playing versus players who play too many hands, passive or aggressive it doesn't matter to me I have counters for both, and players that don't know when to fold, which is why I feel comfortable open-raising a larger range and being slightly loser in my calling against preflop raises.

What I am trying to learn how to balance is my open raising ranges and bet sizing when there are limpers ahead of me. I know poker is a highly situational game so for simplicity lets assume I'm on the button, where my range is widest, at your standard online micro stakes 6-max NLHE with 1 TAG regular playing 20% or less of his hands, 3 loose-passive fish with VPIPs between 30-70% and one aggro-fish with about a 50/30.

Lets say tag is LJ and aggro-fish is in my blinds because for some reason I swear to god they're always to my left, and one or both of the passive fish limp.. what kind of hands do i want to raise here versus call versus fold..

My thought process goes like this in these situations: First, I want to counter limpers strategy. They have a hand they obviously like enough to want to see the flop but not enough to raise, could be anything from AQo to medium to low PP to suited connectors to Axsuited to J-4o.. I naturally want to make a much larger raise than normal for a few reasons, to generate fold equity vs the blinds, get value preflop if my hands is better than theres, have a chance to take down the blinds right there which is always great, and because I have position on them which is like a multiplier for the edge that I already have on them before the cards are even dealt, that I can out-play them most of the time.

That being said, I've found that if I follow conventional wisdom of 3x bb +1bb/limper I don't get folds very often. I get more fold equity jacking that sucker up to 6-9-bb usually, and a lot of times I still get callers, but not as much. However this feels like absolute murder to my ROI if I'm doing this with any hand that's part of a 47% open-raise range. If I get called I'm probably behind in equity vs most callers here, if I get 3-bet in the blinds I have to dump the hand in most cases, and there is a surprising amount of light 3-betting at the micros these days, and the pot is significantly larger on the flop.

None of this good when your open raising range on button consists of 87o and Q7s haha..

So, I'm assuming, to be balanced, with each added limper I probably need to tighten my open-raising range up, and consider folding the really marginal stuff outright and just calling with the lower suited connectors and pocket pairs that don't usually have much equity post-flop if the board doesn't drop low. However if I don't open-raise it, there's a good chance, not always, but still enough of the time to warrant consideration, that one of the blinds will at the very least make a large raise to try and scoop the pot right there and if there's one thing I hate worse than having to open-raise with marginal hands, its call with marginal hands. So if I just call on btn there's a good chance I could be facing a large raise and one-2 callers by the time it gets back to me. sometimes no callers and that makes pot odds to call with lower hands even worse.

Can anyone provide me with a more in-depth GTO analysis on what to do here? I've read that bet-sizing is extremely important the wider your range, which is why I'm almost always open raising either 2.5xbb or 3xbb. But I like to play an aggressive and exploitative style, and if my opponents are willing to pay 7-9bb preflop then fold when I bet 2/3 the pot on flop 50% of the time or more I'm more than happy to print that money. I just worry about what to do when I've got uber calling stations who rarely fold, and also I want to understand all this better so hopefully I can make sure I'm not exploited myself as I move up in limits and encounter better players.


I really had to read your post a couple of times untill it made sense to me. I hope my answer is not too harsh, but I think there are some fundamental flaws in the way you see the game. Perhaps it's just me, though, as said: no offense.


First of all a 5 point gap between VPIP and PFR is not LAG, you are calling way too often, probably even from the button, which is a huge mistake in 6Max.

Second, think about the purpose of your bets. You bet because you either want worse hands to call and better hands to fold. If you 3bet trash and generate folds, that's ok, but as you said, you don't....so don't 3bet with trash. Easy.

Stripping away all that half assed wisdom about GTO play, you have the same problem that was already diskussed 10-12 times over the last couple of months:

"Mom, they don't fold when I raise." "So just raise hands you like to get called with and fold the trash" "But...but...Mom...I am a LAG, you know?"


I think you already know the answer. If the entire table is splashing, there's no need to open 47% from the BTN. 3bet AQs+, KQs, TT+ and that's it.


Attacking the blinds with trash is -EV untill they are uber nits. In the end all comes down to frequencies. When you open 3/4 of the time against them, you get a lose image and nobody folds against you, when you have TPTK.

There is a limited amount of fold equity for a given table. If you abuse that too much, they'll come after you and then you HAVE to play tight.


When it comes to sizing your 3bets, forget conventional wisdom, use your brain instead. If you are on the BTN, two limpers are in front of you and you raise 3x+1bb per limper, what are the odds you are giving to the BB?

If you like customers for your hand at those odds, keep doing it. If you think you can charge more, bet pot or overbet the pot pre.
Just keep in mind, the larger the 3bet, the tighter the range and vice versa.


TL;DR:

- stop the labeling of your playstyle. Adjust your game to what's necessary on this particular table to win.

- Stop being such a station preflop. 6Max calling ranges are super small. Either open, 3bet or fold.

- On a table with lose passive players, you don't have a lot of bluffs. Don't open raise bluff...ever, not even against the blinds. Ranges are unbalanced, so you can forget about 3bet bluffing to get UTG fold his AJo. It's just not happening.

- Against stations stop overplaying offsuit broadways, they get you into trouble a lot more than they win you a decent pot. Start playing implied hands a lot more. SC's, suited one gappers, mid/low PP's. Don't 3bet them, but enjoy the odds of a multiway pot.

- When you can't just get away from the call button, try to call your speculative hands from the BB.

- only 3bet for value with premium hands. By bloating the pot with AJo, KJo, QJs and trash like that, you shoot yourself in the foot, since it counters your positional advantage postflop. As you said, if you get a call, you're almost always behind.


Forget about GTO for now and focus on the fundamentals. GTO is not working in micro's, since people call with trash, raise with the nuts and underbluff the river. The counterstrategy is and most likely will stay for a long time: Don't bluff, raise for value, use your middle pairs as bluffcatcher on the flop and fold to raises on turn and river untill you have the nuts.
 
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