6 Max basics

Hi there guys, so I really need to improve my game and decided that I should just go back to basics. I guess the best way to do this is for me to post what I think I should do in certain scenarios and some of the more experienced players just correct what I got wrong. So without further ado:

Starting Hand Ranges
EP - AQ, AJs, 99
MP - Add KQs, 77-88
CO - Add all suited broadway cards, 55+?
Button -
SB - Same as EP
BB - Same as EP

I really have no clue how often I should blind stealing from the button so if someone could fill that blank in for me that would be great. The reason for tightness in the blinds is due to lacking position, so I can make up for it with a stronger range, let me know if I should change that.

In terms of other preflop play I have always lacked a cold calling range regardless of situation, I would generally call with most suited connectors and all pocket pairs if there is a raise and call before me. However if I am to be the first caller I have no idea what hand range I should be calling with although I assume it is determined by player type and position, both mine and the raiser?

For example:

Nit raises 3x EP
MP folds
CO folds,
Button(me) QJs, call or fold?


Normally I would just fold as I assume his range destroys mine, and as nits generally give no action there would be no point in giving them any. Is this thought process along the right lines? Whereas if this was a loose-passive player type min-raising I should call, correct?


I do apologize for the wall of text and for some people who may assume I am being lazy by taking this approach to gathering info instead of searching for threads with the info already in it. I'm not lazy I just prefer the direct approach and I find this way easier to get insight.

These is my opening range for 6max. You should be stealing from the BTN with a wide range.

UTG: 22+, AJs+, AQo+
MP: 22+, ATs+, AJo+, QJs+, KJs, A2s-A5s
CO: 22+, A2s+, ATo+, 76s+, KTs+, QJo+
BTN: 22+, A2s+, A2o+, 76s+, K9s+, Q9s, 98o+, 86s+

In the SB I'll steal with the CO range. When I am in the blinds facing a single raise I generally try to avoid calling (although some situations clearly warrant it like setmining vs EP nit opens) and either 3b or fold instead.

For me the example you gave above is a fold, you're right, the nits range crushes you.

Thanks for the reply, are those ranges considered LAG or TAG?

I notice you open all PP from every position. If I were to adopt your ranges how often would I be looking to C bet? I generally bet most dry boards in a HU situation and maybe in a multi-way pot if I have position.

TAG.

I my flop cbet stat is about 65%

So I have been trying out that range for a little bit, not played enough to determine if I am using it correctly. One more question (for the moment), I'm trying it out at 1c/2c on pokerstars and having trouble with isolation spots

Example:


UTG - limp
MP - limp
CO(me) - raise 5x
Button - fold
SB - call
BB - call

Then the rest call....This seems to be a big problem as for me to continue and try to pick it up it becomes increasingly costly. What would you recommend as an isolation raise range? Even if it is just a generalised range it may help me considerably as I have just been isolating using the positional ranges you stated before but I find that there are far too many limpers for this to be profitable.

I would use the same positional range for iso'ing the limping donks as i open with I think, but proceed with caution post flop if subsequent players call and it becomes multiway.

You look to be doing it by the book 3BB plus 1BB per limper.
However the ranges you were looking at before were for unopened pots,
you should consider tightening the range when the pot has already been opened.
Also throw the book away every now and again and play the occasional hand completely differently.

micro what stats do you run?

I'm FR and my CO/BTN opening range destroys that lol.. its kinda weird.

and TR you're at 2nl, you can make it a lot larger 4bb+1 for each limper seems standard but you can probably go bigger.


fold QJs, there's a good thread by baudib (I can't find it, maybe someone else can?) about suited connectors vs small PP vs UTG raises.

^its called lightbulb moments, in the cash games section

Chemist said:

You look to be doing it by the book 3BB plus 1BB per limper.
However the ranges you were looking at before were for unopened pots,
you should consider tightening the range when the pot has already been opened.
Also throw the book away every now and again and play the occasional hand completely differently.

Click to expand...

This.

Can work wonders against thinking players. Raised A3s in EP once. Solid reg Guy refuse to give me credit when I hit trip 3s on the flop and when berserk on me with tptk for the whole stack. He proceeded to mouth me off for playing ace rag from EP

Then again, I don't 6max. Doesn't it play just like FR with utg, + 1 and + 2 removed?

Campbell92 said:

micro what stats do you run?

I'm FR and my CO/BTN opening range destroys that lol.. its kinda weird.

Click to expand...

About 20/16. You can see my stats here:

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/pok...46/10nl-challenge-50k-hands-3bb-100-a-214235/

So you play lot more hands than that from CO and BTN? I dont see why LP opening ranges should be different for FR and 6max

CO and BTN should def include like 67s+, 68s+ if youre even remotely good at postflop

I figured 6max openings would be way wider since there's less players its folded round to you way more often that FR?

might be wrong..

@Campbell, I did experiment with iso-raising sizes and 5x minimum was a great tool as most of the gullible players at these stakes equate raise size with hand strength. I find that 9/10 I could take it down with a flop bet.

In terms of playing v 1 raise I generally 3 bet my EP range(only 99+ for PP) and fold most other hands, excepting small pocket pairs if the raiser is a nit. If there is a raise and a call I usually squeeze with same range as before and call with pocket pairs and suited connectors. Are these actions ideal? Or should I be looking at altering ranges/changing the actions I take?


I have to thank all you guys for the friendly advice. I'll try to clock a couple thousand hands later on and see how it goes.

Campbell92 said:

I figured 6max openings would be way wider since there's less players its folded round to you way more often that FR?

might be wrong..

Click to expand...

tbh i dont think it makes that much of a difference because EP openers arent so tight on their opening criterea so it gets opened before you a lot so youre folding most of your marginals

Hey guys sorry for not checking back but I have been taking a break from poker at the moment. It is probably just that I'm way out of practice but despite the advice you guys gave me I seem to be having the same problems.

I'm still using Micromachines range that I adopted and I enjoy it, although my VPIP/PFR is 12/10 instead of 20/16. One problem that I know is I'm not 3-betting or calling raises enough however in my situation I cant see it as being profitable, reason being is that just about every player I'm sitting down with is either within these ranges:

79/5 - 40/0
10/10 - 6/6

Everyone seems to limp, so I make the large iso-raise and then get called by 2-3 people. Then I pretty much have to give it up unless I hit it hard. In the scenarios where I do hit it but not massively if I go with it I generally get stacked. When people do raise it is such a rare occurrence that I'm scared to 3 bet them as my raise sizes from isolating are so large that I look like a donk, thus losing all credibility. This is where I feel like I'm lacking too much info and need to update my HUD with more stats, or even different ones so that I can make informed decisions easier. Now I don't want to say that I'm up against bad players and it is all down to variance so far, because it clearly isn't. I have to feel that I'm trying too hard to combat their inconsistency and I'm just not good enough player for that.

So to sum things up

1. How do you guys react against players who are at complete opposites of the spectrum at the same table? As in would your ranges change overall or would you make adjustment on a hand to hand basis

2. Would getting a better HUD setup help? In which case could someone give me an idea about their layout

Sorry for the rather long winded post and me pretty much reiterating the same problems that seem to be affecting my game.

bookmarking for ref.

I cut my session short just there to avoid me going on tilt. I was playing pretty good I think, but one key hand is probably the deciding factor in whether I was making good decisions:

2/4c 6 max
UTG: fold
MP: fold
CO: raise 3x (stats are 75/63, post flop aggro factor is 22.0)
Button(me): 3 bet with AA
SB: fold
BB: fold

He calls and the flop comes 7c9c9d, pot is 78c, I bet 20 he min raises and I decide to play along and min raise him. We do this a few times and then he calls and I shove the turn which is the Qh and he calls.

2 questions

1. How would you have played this?
2. I understand that the min raising this is probably not how I should have played, but is getting it in here wrong?

I didn't give his hand because I would like to know how I should have played it. I didn't see what he had while I was playing this hand with him and I would like to know what better players would do with the same information in the same spot. I do plan to let you know what he had, just after I find out how I played it in comparison to how it could/should have been played

you bet waayy too small on the flop. Try .50 cents. Why did you minraise back? Do you expect him to spazz shove with worse? Do you expect him to call? Do you expect him to fold? Why? What do you think he's min raising you with? Why did you elect to even raise at all?

Not saying it's wrong but I just want to know your thought process

I actually thought he had a pretty strong hand, due to the fact that he went 3x, now I know it is standard but it was the first time in the 100 hands I played with him that he raised more than min. So I assumed he actually had a hand rather than all the trash he plays, especially when he calls my 3 bet. His call 3 bet stat was non existant but he is pretty spazzy so I put him 77+ AJs+. The reason for re min raising is his post flop aggression, with the board being 7-9-9 and him being so aggro post flop to the point of donkiness I was fairly sure he would get it in with just about every pocket pair that he is willing to call with pre. There was a flush draw so any suited ace that he is calling with will probably pay me.

With his aggro factor I assumed if I bet small he was going to raise with anything, then if I came over the top he would shove his PP and flush draws while folding the trash. As it turned out he had 9-5 off, now that I know what he had I would have bet more on the flop. Just don't know if I could have folded to him, however should I be looking to fold aces in this spot?

How would you have done it? Taking into consideration he is super aggro post flop, and is playing 75/63

TyrannicalRaest said:

I cut my session short just there to avoid me going on tilt. I was playing pretty good I think, but one key hand is probably the deciding factor in whether I was making good decisions:

2/4c 6 max
UTG: fold
MP: fold
CO: raise 3x (stats are 75/63, post flop aggro factor is 22.0)
Button(me): 3 bet with AA
SB: fold
BB: fold

He calls and the flop comes 7c9c9d, pot is 78c, I bet 20 he min raises and I decide to play along and min raise him. We do this a few times and then he calls and I shove the turn which is the Qh and he calls.

2 questions

1. How would you have played this?
2. I understand that the min raising this is probably not how I should have played, but is getting it in here wrong?

Click to expand...

Ok so acouple of questions 1st..


I assume he raised to .12 pre, and you 3bet to .36 on the button? Personally I find that a bigger 3bet usually gets called by these players, like .45 (but ok)..

So on the flop he checks (Since your BTN correct), and you bet really 1/4th almost of pot (about that area), and he RR you min?

Well without really knowing the stack sizes of both players, I really have a hard time deciding what's the right play here...Lets assume both you and villain had about $5 at start of the hand, well If you take away .36+.40 then you've only taken away .76 (which would leave both of you fairly deep still, correct), $4.24 each to be correct? Then you continued to 4bet min rr back, so really without the vital info pertaining to the hand itself how can one really answer the question for you (unless I'm missing something here)


Also what happened once you 4bet min again (you stated he calls), correct? The turn brought the Q of hearts, and I once again assume he checked to you? Yet you still assumed he's weak and shoved A.I on the turn, correct?

Well 1st of all a very aggressive player, calls your 3bet pre, and checks to you and you bet and he min raised, then you min RR and he once again flats and checks turn to you, and you shoved A.I on him...

I personally would never shoved turn on this player personally because I'd be hard pressed wondering what their slow playing against me, why aren't they playing as aggressively as they usually are...Why are they changing up their playing style towards me? Unless they didn't change up there style and usually did that stupid min raise back and forth and so on, on the flop...I'd be hard pressed to believe AA is any good in this situation personally

Thanks for the insight naruto. We both had about 100BB, and I played this hand pretty wierd.

The fact that he had never called a 3 bet pre flop indicated to me that he needed a stronger range, 9-5 off wasn't what I had in mind.

At the time I was c betting a lot and double barrelling occasionally and my post flop aggro was 3.2-3.8 so when his shows 22.0 I struggle to fold aces against him. Assuming that I played it faster, and raised to 50c pre, he calls, and now there is $1 in the pot. I would normally go for about 70c here, he min check raises. So there is $3.10 in the pot and I have $2.80 behind, what would you elect to do here?

TyrannicalRaest said:

Thanks for the insight naruto. We both had about 100BB, and I played this hand pretty wierd.

The fact that he had never called a 3 bet pre flop indicated to me that he needed a stronger range, 9-5 off wasn't what I had in mind.

At the time I was c betting a lot and double barrelling occasionally and my post flop aggro was 3.2-3.8 so when his shows 22.0 I struggle to fold aces against him. Assuming that I played it faster, and raised to 50c pre, he calls, and now there is $1 in the pot. I would normally go for about 70c here, he min check raises. So there is $3.10 in the pot and I have $2.80 behind, what would you elect to do here?

Click to expand...

The 2 situations are totally different in the sense that in one case you bet 1/4th the pot and in the other your betting close to 2/3rds pot so that totally changes things up..

Another thing you stated he/she is a 78/22 and yet you still find it hard that they called a 3bet pre with 95o?

It's confusing in the sense that you'd have a hard time believing that players like this have a hard time calling ATC pre, as they call more times than likely ATC pre (hope that makes sense for you )...More or less what I'm trying to say is against players like this (trying to really range them is well next to impossible to do because of the simple fact that they basically can't be ranged), this doesn't mean that you still can't out play them either though now does it? So how do you out play them? Well simply put, even though (JC once told me this btw, and I stick to this code), even though these players call ATC preflop (High VPIP), their still very passive in the since that their PRE is low compared to there VPIP...So in this sense when they check to you, it's better to bet but if they call it's safer to slow down the action, now the complete opposite is also true, in the sense that if they bet they're more likely to be weak/with some sort of BS 1 pair hand and they think it's good, and thus you can slow play them by just calling and checking again (hence they tend to spazz out, or you could just GII on the flop and they'd call with a 1 pair hand thinking it's the NUTS)

Thanks for the explanation there. I'll try to be more careful around these players from now on. I guess it was pretty foolish trying to assume I could put him on a range in that situation so thanks for the education.



One question though? PRE? I'm going to guess that means Pre Flop Raise, and PFR would then mean Post Flop Aggression?