My 50k hands of 10NL

DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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This was my journey at 10nl for the pash few months, cant say that im happy, cant say that i should unsatisfied i got lucky in few sessions had some ups and downs, currently im on a 60bucks downer last 2 days...

here is the graph and here are the stats, i would love to get some feedback


for those who dont know, im involved in stake deal where i suppose to play MPP 40bb deep...

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jsh169

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Being a short stacker its gonna be hard to give much good advice to me, it looks like your EP is a bit to tight, same with mp, and co. I have no idea how a 40bb is supposed to play obviously you are supposed to go to showdown more, but the number looks a bit high to me, take with a grain of salt here because I'm no short stacker. I think your going to need to post hands for a more accurate assessment.
 
6

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Your all-in EV has been pretty consistent over the 50k hand sample, but your net winnings dropped so much at one point... you must've gone on a pretty bad downswing.

I'm running about 3 BI below EV, but still 13 BI up overall over 25k hands.

I have noticed that I'm significantly looser than you preflop. You seem to play like a nit preflop. Maybe you don't value low pocket pairs and suited connectors as much as I do? Or maybe you don't steal as much as I do? Postflop I'm looser too, but not by a huge margin. My blue line (showdown winnings) is close to zero, whereas my red line (non-showdown winnings) is close to my green line (net winnings).

2s0buv6.png


Could the fact that you're playing with a different currency make the stakes more difficult? What is the exchange rate and what does that make the blinds and buyins in terms of USD?
 
IPlay

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Can micro stake rake be beat while short stacking?
 
6

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Can micro stake rake be beat while short stacking?

I believe so. If hyper turbo SnG's can be beat (where you start off with 25bb and end up with less than 10bb effective stacks for most of the tournament), then I'd assume that a short-stack strategy could be profitable at the micros too.
 
IPlay

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I believe so. If hyper turbo SnG's can be beat (where you start off with 25bb and end up with less than 10bb effective stacks for most of the tournament), then I'd assume that a short-stack strategy could be profitable at the micros too.

Ummm, I don't think hyper turbo SnG's and cash games are comparable at all.
 
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MinhANguyen

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Your all-in EV has been pretty consistent over the 50k hand sample, but your net winnings dropped so much at one point... you must've gone on a pretty bad downswing.

I'm running about 3 BI below EV, but still 13 BI up overall over 25k hands.

I have noticed that I'm significantly looser than you preflop. You seem to play like a nit preflop. Maybe you don't value low pocket pairs and suited connectors as much as I do? Or maybe you don't steal as much as I do? Postflop I'm looser too, but not by a huge margin. My blue line (showdown winnings) is close to zero, whereas my red line (non-showdown winnings) is close to my green line (net winnings).

2s0buv6.png


Could the fact that you're playing with a different currency make the stakes more difficult? What is the exchange rate and what does that make the blinds and buyins in terms of USD?

Wow, that is a very high flop c-bet%. Can't your opponents see this on Stars, and exploit you by bluff-raising a ton of flops since most of your range is air/pretty weak? I also notice that the gap between your VPIP/PFR is a little wide. I think you can increase your winrate if you close this gap. That was probably one of my biggest leaks at 25NL/50NL: calling too much from the blinds and calling IP with speculative hands. It's really really hard to get paid off the higher you move up. At 100NL (Bovada Zone) I almost never stack someone or get stacked unless someone gets coolered, or someone randomly spazzes out preflop/postflop. Cash game players are a little fishier, but still don't pay off super light like they did at 25NL/some 50NL.
 
6

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Ummm, I don't think hyper turbo SnG's and cash games are comparable at all.

The fundamental difference between cash games and tournaments are the stack sizes. If you played a cash game and a SnG with the same stack sizes relative to blinds, it would play very similar. Less than 15bb in either would just be push/fold charts. Yes, there are a few other nuances, like "the bubble", but stack sizes are the main difference.

@MinhANguyen - my 3bet stat is already 13%, which is very high. The only way I could lower my VPIP/PFR gap would be to increase my 3bet stat even higher, which would get a bit insane. Also, I rarely flat-call from the blinds. I usually always 3bet. Even when I'm on the BTN with a hand like 22 or 65s and UTG opens, I'll typically 3bet. I do almost everything in my power to avoid the VPIP/PFR gap by 3betting more, but there's some spots where it is really bad to be 3betting and flat-calling makes a lot more sense (eg. I'm on BTN with QJs, there's a raiser and a caller and I don't want to squeeze with a hand that would play so well in position in a multiway pot), so I can't always help having this gap.

This is zoom poker and the player pool is typically around 1000 players, so it's difficult to get a large sample size on any specific player. I do encounter "lookup artists" every now and again (players that float the flop to see how you react on the turn), but I'm pretty good at dealing with them. If players at higher stakes start to exploit me, then I'll adjust, but until then, I'll continue Cbetting like crazy.
 
IPlay

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Dude, in cash rake is taken from every hand while tournaments it is taken one time from the buy in. Can't believe I'm even having to say this lol
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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Can micro stake rake be beat while short stacking?

well i have 50% rakeback i guess it compensate a bit... yea it can be beaten there are lot of fishes just need to table select good which i still learning and handle the variance well which i still cant... even beside that i havent went busto i started with 200 bucks and got over 300 (mostly thanks to rakeback) at one point until i spilled some nice money last 2 days...
 
DrazaFFT

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Could the fact that you're playing with a different currency make the stakes more difficult? What is the exchange rate and what does that make the blinds and buyins in terms of USD?

well the results are shown in USD but its actually euro tables i dont think that there is exchange rate involved in stats and results...
 
JonnyW87

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Sorry if I missed it but what site are you playing at ?
 
6

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Dude, in cash rake is taken from every hand while tournaments it is taken one time from the buy in. Can't believe I'm even having to say this lol

And that's another subtle difference. How much of the pot do you think that rake reduces? 3%? Do you think that someone's bet sizing or overall strategy throughout the game is going to change significantly because every pot is 3% smaller?

It would be like comparing a short-stacked SnG with antes vs a short-stacked SnG without antes. Yes, the push/fold chart changes slightly when antes are introduced, but the difference isn't massive. It's not as if you're going from a push/fold chart to a 3x opening raise strategy because of that.
 
IPlay

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And that's another subtle difference. How much of the pot do you think that rake reduces? 3%? Do you think that someone's bet sizing or overall strategy throughout the game is going to change significantly because every pot is 3% smaller?

It would be like comparing a short-stacked SnG with antes vs a short-stacked SnG without antes. Yes, the push/fold chart changes slightly when antes are introduced, but the difference isn't massive. It's not as if you're going from a push/fold chart to a 3x opening raise strategy because of that.

Yeah, we are just gonna have to agree to disagree, I don't care to discuss the differences of hyper turbo SnGs and 6 max cash games.
 
6

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Yeah, we are just gonna have to agree to disagree, I don't care to discuss the differences of hyper turbo SnGs and 6 max cash games.

I'm not saying they're exactly the same, I'm saying that they're closely comparable. Yes, there are differences: static blinds, no bubble, slightly larger pots, no sitting out, entering or leaving the game. But those differences aren't going to fundamentally change the way the game runs. At the end of the day, the main things that determine how a game plays are the stack sizes and the buyin. If you compare a high stakes hyper turbo SnG to a high stakes 20bb capped cash game, you'll see that the overall play-style is fairly similar.

If you don't think that the $25/$50 capped cash games are profitable, then think again. People grind those games regularly.

I'd ask you to see for yourself by observing the high stakes "cap" games running at pokerstars (there's a $25/$50 "cap" game running where effective stack sizes are $1000 (20bb) every hand), but I don't think you have access to that site.
 
vinylspiros

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in. gl drazza. will be following obviously.
 
Figaroo2

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6max or FR? Why 40bb and not 30bb? The latter is easier to gii on the flop rather than having to make a turn decision.

Terrible downswing against EV so don't get too disheartened.
You really should only be playing strong hands that you are either raising and c betting strongly or 3betting and looking to gii on flop or latest the turn;
The only other hands you should be playing are when stealing from LP.
As a result your vpip/pfr should be tight I would suggest a maximum of 18/16 at 6max or 14/12 at FR.
The only reason to short stack is to reduce the edge of better players as you have to make fewer decisions and can negate position.
You need to have disciplined opening ranges and a clear idea of what hands you are willing to gii with preflop.
 
DrazaFFT

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in. gl drazza. will be following obviously.

In,

GL Draza :)

Thanks Sarah and Vin, tho i dont think that ill keep updating the progress in this thread, might try to revive the old one but i havent got lot of feedback on hands lately... thought to use this one to discuss stats and possibly find holes since this is the first time i have a hand sample this big, you know that i always had trouble to put the volume... :D
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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6max or FR? Why 40bb and not 30bb? The latter is easier to gii on the flop rather than having to make a turn decision.

Terrible downswing against EV so don't get too disheartened.
You really should only be playing strong hands that you are either raising and c betting strongly or 3betting and looking to gii on flop or latest the turn;
The only other hands you should be playing are when stealing from LP.
As a result your vpip/pfr should be tight I would suggest a maximum of 18/16 at 6max or 14/12 at FR.
The only reason to short stack is to reduce the edge of better players as you have to make fewer decisions and can negate position.
You need to have disciplined opening ranges and a clear idea of what hands you are willing to gii with preflop.

Thanks Bruce!!!
Yea this definitely is the idea of MSS strategy to cut the implied odds for all the hands that work great at 100+bb stacks, and it definitely should be played the way you described tho with only the diference that possition still matters cuz when im IP against the oppener i also have a CC range which i dodnt had when i played on my own, when im OOP against the raisor it 3bet or fold, same goes with 3bets, when im at CO/BU i have c3b range when blinds 3bet me and also when at CO i have hands that i c3b with against blinds but 4bet shove or fold when im up against BU... also there are less AL pots than you might expect, for the example when i started playing most of the hands ended up on the flop, turn at most, now as my game getting better we are slowly changing the concepts and slowing things down with adding callingd down lighter and folding some spots on flop which was easy push before, the idea of my coach is that slowly transit me to the 100bb game while loosing less money with mid stack while learning the concepts...

about the stack sizes i previously played 50bb deep when i played at FTP, now since im in this stake deal they expect me to play 40bb, the math is a bit different with different stacks sizes, and dead money becoming the more significant part of the pot the shorter you are, implying that you can gii with worse when you're 40bb than when you're 50bb deep, i have never tried to play 30bb tho but i guess that you can be even bigger underdog on flop and still be +ev when you push cuz of the dead money
 
IPlay

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I'm not saying they're exactly the same, I'm saying that they're closely comparable. Yes, there are differences: static blinds, no bubble, slightly larger pots, no sitting out, entering or leaving the game. But those differences aren't going to fundamentally change the way the game runs. At the end of the day, the main things that determine how a game plays are the stack sizes and the buyin. If you compare a high stakes hyper turbo SnG to a high stakes 20bb capped cash game, you'll see that the overall play-style is fairly similar.

If you don't think that the $25/$50 capped cash games are profitable, then think again. People grind those games regularly.

I'd ask you to see for yourself by observing the high stakes "cap" games running at PokerStars (there's a $25/$50 "cap" game running where effective stack sizes are $1000 (20bb) every hand), but I don't think you have access to that site.

Oh, micro stake cash games and $25/$50 are similar in rake? I never knew

You are kind of embarrassing yourself by continuing to talk about this
 
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jsh169

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Dude post at least 4 hand where you made questionable plays on the turn or river, I'm pretty sure we can find something to help you. If you want no help post nothing and just blame variance. No results necessary.
 
DrazaFFT

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Dude post at least 4 hand where you made questionable plays on the turn or river, I'm pretty sure we can find something to help you. If you want no help post nothing and just blame variance. No results necessary.

You can see a lot of hands in thethread in my sig. I can also post some hands here too later but there you have whole bunch of hands...
 
EvertonGirl

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Thanks Sarah and Vin, tho i dont think that ill keep updating the progress in this thread, might try to revive the old one but i havent got lot of feedback on hands lately... thought to use this one to discuss stats and possibly find holes since this is the first time i have a hand sample this big, you know that i always had trouble to put the volume... :D

You are putting more volume than I am :D

I started to play a bit of 2nl at FTP this year after I decided I am fed up of the turbos and RB's on their site. I have only managed 256 hands, I only play one table :D when I get better at cash game I will think of multi-tabling. My BB/100 looks great at 35.66, but that's only cos of the small sample size, I am not fooling myself hehe. My overall BB/100 looks baaaaaaaaad I have in total 975 hands and my BB/100 is -3.49. Maybe I will crush 2nl or just stay a tournament player. I will have fun either way :)
 
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