4bet sizing

6

6bet me

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Suppose that there is an open to 3bb, a raise to 9bb and you want to make a 4bet. What size would you choose and why?
 
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dturner100

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Are you referring to tournament play, cash play or general poker?
I'd imagine the answers are different for both.
Tournament play in most situations in the micro to medium stakes you'll rarely see a 4 bet that doesn't involve an all in shove.

I'm really interested in the other end of the coin though ( cash games ) as I'm not a great cash player.
 
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Giorgio

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Normally they propose a 3 à 4 times the last bet. So a 9bb bet would result in something between 27 and 36bb's
 
ConDeck

ConDeck

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Normally they propose a 3 à 4 times the last bet. So a 9bb bet would result in something between 27 and 36bb's

4b do not need to be this large unless your just value betting a complete fish you know is going to call/GII light.

I use a 2.2x for 4b (roughly) so my sizing in the above example would generally be 20bb ish. This not only makes it look like you could still lay your hand down to a shove, inducing bluffs occasionally, but gives you a good price on your own 4b bluffs (sporadic at micros), when called your still playing for stacks and if they were going to fold to your larger 4b they are still likely to fold to this sizing, the times they don't they will shove lighter and call lighter giving you a greater equity advantage against there range.

This is for cash games I should add.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Normally they propose a 3 à 4 times the last bet. So a 9bb bet would result in something between 27 and 36bb's

4bets can be much smaller in general. My standard 4bet size in the case described above would be about 21bb. Now if I'm facing a fish who will call bigger with worse I will 4bet bigger (up to 4bet shoving for 100bb) and I may go a bit bigger OOP but not always.
 
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Giorgio

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4b do not need to be this large unless your just value betting a complete fish you know is going to call/GII light.

Well, maybe you are right. At 5NL zoom, you get the initial opening of like 15c, someone raises to 45c. If you want to 4bet, i think a standard raise to 90c is surely to low as i personally go for 1.35-1.50. I think that is the right call for the micro's.
 
ConDeck

ConDeck

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Well, maybe you are right. At 5NL zoom, you get the initial opening of like 15c, someone raises to 45c. If you want to 4bet, i think a standard raise to 90c is surely to low as i personally go for 1.35-1.50. I think that is the right call for the micro's.

In this exact example my sizing would be around $1.05 - 1.10... A little larger than my 2.2 but only fractionally. This is because it is 5NL and the pool is generally weaker, plus making it over a dollar just appears larger while not actually being by much. We can still GII easily on any turn and some flops.
 
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ksidrew

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My usual sizing 100 bb deep would be around 23bb or 2.5 x the size of the 3 bet. This makes it easy to get your stack in with two bets post flop. Also this sizing gives you a good price on your 4bet bluffs.
 
luiaguila

luiaguila

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it all depends on your blinds as four bet of 9BB imply often or most one allin ultimately depends on your cards and how you can get the most value
 
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leandr0s

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it has to do with your range.. if you only 4bet AA and KK then your 4bet is giving way too many information on your hand so you better charge enough for that.. make it clear that set mining is not profitable and let them decide what to with their jj or qq... if you also include some semi-bluffing hands then decrease the size of the 4bet to give yourself a better chance to get away when caught. also position matters! if you are in position you dont care much to see a flop , even with your bluffing hands,, which by thee way were chosen because of their great flopability. on the other hand even with a hand like kk seeing a flop out of position shouldnt be something you want to do cheaply.. charge harder when out of position.. a good sized 4bet is one that doesnt get you committed. if you have the goods you want the opponent to believe that he can take you off the pot, and if you dont you want to have room to get away when the foe instashoves it in your face! now in tournaments stack sizes make the differences.. when starting stacks are at 50BB and you open with 2.5BB then get raise to 6.5BB you make it 15BB.. just enough for your opponent to decide whether to shove or fold.. if stacks are even shallower a 4bet sizing would even mean as low as a min raise. it just works to blow the pot a little more and pass the info "i have a big hand here"
 
6a6yJIbkO_o

6a6yJIbkO_o

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I do 4 to 5 bet always raise when I have a good hand of AA KK AK. If you want to pay to see the flop let my Monsters
 
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hffjd2000

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Make a 4bet where the 9bb raiser would make a mathematical mistake if he calls.

Personally, 2/3 of pot from villain side is fine for me.
 
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Laps1ns

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hands,, which by thee way were chosen because of their great flopability. on the other hand even with a hand like kk seeing a flop out of positio
 
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