4 bet folding JJ good or bad play in this situation?

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thomasguy3419

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Hi everyone. NLHE 6 Max ZOOM cash game on pokerstars.
Effective stack size is 100BB. I'm SB with JJ. UTG min raises. MP calls. CO min re-raises. BTN calls. There is too many players in the pot so calling isn't really an option because I want to be heads up or against 2 opponents at the most. Folding JJ to a 3 bet kind of isn't an option either so I decide to 4 bet hoping that nobody 5 bets. Of course UTG 5 bets and then CO 6 bet shoves. Obviously I fold JJ to a 6 bet shove... UTG calls the 6 bet shove. Board comes 7s 5d 8d Ah 9s, UTG shows A10 and CO shows AK. CO takes the pot. I managed to save my remaining stack but I still 4 bet folded. Should I have folded in the first place instead of 4 betting?
 
PokerNuts01

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4bet is the best option, my opinion.. Good fold after 5bet.
 
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thomasguy3419

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PokerNuts01 said:
4bet is the best option, my opinion.. Good fold after 5bet.
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Thanks I thought so too but wasn't too sure because I heard that 4 bet folding is a mistake lol.
 
Keith_MM

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how big was the 4bet and what stakes were you playing
 
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titiduru

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thomasguy3419 said:
Hi everyone. NLHE 6 Max ZOOM cash game on PokerStars.
Effective stack size is 100BB. I'm SB with JJ. UTG min raises. MP calls. CO min re-raises. BTN calls. There is too many players in the pot so calling isn't really an option because I want to be heads up or against 2 opponents at the most. Folding JJ to a 3 bet kind of isn't an option either so I decide to 4 bet hoping that nobody 5 bets. Of course UTG 5 bets and then CO 6 bet shoves. Obviously I fold JJ to a 6 bet shove... UTG calls the 6 bet shove. Board comes 7s 5d 8d Ah 9s, UTG shows A10 and CO shows AK. CO takes the pot. I managed to save my remaining stack but I still 4 bet folded. Should I have folded in the first place instead of 4 betting?
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I think you should have gotten all instead of 4 betting and folding. You would have lost more on that hand, yes, but you would have put your money in while you were ahead.
 
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sekcapilniqt

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Well, I think it's good to bet if you do not have to wait
 
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thomasguy3419

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Che said:
Ha?

4bet comes to be $0.70? - Is this some kind of pin ballgame in the back of 7-Eleven store, or what?
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What 7-Eleven store do you go to? Haha.
 
andyt5303

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I guess you could consider 4-bet shoving but it's still a pretty sick spot with that many players involved. UTG super spewy 5-betting with AT but you have to fold. At least you saved your stack!
 
RidersFan

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4bet folding is just not something you should be doing regularly. In your situation you shouldn't be 4bet folding so I think folding to the 3bet would have been better. But since you did 4bet, you should be willing to go with it, also your 4bet sizing seems on the small side.
 
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thomasguy3419

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RidersFan said:
4bet folding is just not something you should be doing regularly. In your situation you shouldn't be 4bet folding so I think folding to the 3bet would have been better. But since you did 4bet, you should be willing to go with it, also your 4bet sizing seems on the small side.
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Should I be folding JJ to a 3 bet? What do you mean my 4 bet was too small? I made a pot sized 4 bet. There was 50 cents in the pot. 50 cents plus 4BB (20 cents) = 70 cents lol.
 
RidersFan

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thomasguy3419 said:
Should I be folding JJ to a 3 bet? What do you mean my 4 bet was too small? I made a pot sized 4 bet. There was 50 cents in the pot. 50 cents plus 4BB (20 cents) = 70 cents lol.
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If you know your not going to call a 5bet and you don't want to flat. For tournaments that's an alright sizing but for cash I tend to go bigger.
 
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thomasguy3419

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RidersFan said:
If you know your not going to call a 5bet and you don't want to flat. For tournaments that's an alright sizing but for cash I tend to go bigger.
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Okay thanks. How should I do sizing for cash?
 
RidersFan

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In position I go 3x-3.5x the raise + 1x for every caller in the pot. Out of position I go 4x-5x the raise + 1x-2x for every caller. Maybe it's just a personal preference but I like to go on the bigger side for cash because I started out playing live cash games.
 
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I would like more bigger 4bet, 1.10 to 1.5. You want folds too, 20bb is min 4bet size one Vs one imo. Given the action folding should be ok. If only minraiser CO plays back, getting it in most likely is correct.
 
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Tricky123bet

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Yeah, 4bet should be bigger, otherwise it's even worse than both calling or folding. You want to thin the field, because going postflop OOP with more than one opponent is not good with JJ.
Personally I think shoving JJ is a bit too big of a risk, unless there are any fish among your opponents that would call a shove with smaller pocket pairs or enough hands that you have dominated.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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I dont mind 4bet folding, generally I only do this with Tens or Jacks so it doesnt happen often.

More inclined to 4bet OOP, but if I have position I might flat.
 
TheNutz4You

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Che said:
Ha?

4bet comes to be $0.70? - Is this some kind of pin ballgame in the back of 7-Eleven store, or what?
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What's the problem? SO what if he doesn't play 500nl like you boss (hope you can sence the sarcasm) . As much shit as you talk behind a keyboard to people on here, with the constant I am greater then thee bullshit, you must be seriously inadequate in real life because as much as you TRY to project yourself on people here its sad as it gets.
 
RidersFan

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By 4 betting with the intention of folding your turning JJ into a bluff. The problem is your never bluffing out any better hands.
 
Antulio francis

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Situation dificio against 3 opponent jj plays poorly although you will tar in the front most of the time more goes from playing for the opponent's flip I particularly do not like the call against 4 or more I have all in almost impossible call fold and follow the game
 
nutthink

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thats easly call mate to see the floop with JJ..
 
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reggie_g

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4 bet was the good play here imo, still i would do the same as what you did, 4bet with the intention of folding with 2 allins, whats the stats of these players?
 
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