3betting small pps?

I never do this, I just want to know some of your guys take on it. I hardly even 3 bet like 8s or 9s unless its a short stack and I want him to fold or commit preflop. I just got done watching a dragthebar video, where turkeybrain, was 3 betting some small pairs, in her examples she wasn't successful, but her video was on losing the least with pocket pairs. She backed it up, obviously I pretty much just play my small pairs to hit a set, which your going to be bleeding money a vast majority of the time in doing so, because sets don't come by to often.

I saw some articles where 3betting small PPs is recommended for balance (meaning, you 3bet them as bluffs and fold to 4bet or shove).

Now, I am currently a microstakes player (just to put my opinions in perspective ) and I like 3betting Axs/Kxs as bluffs against some regs because at least I have a blocker then and the equity is not too bad if called.

I only 3bet small PPs as bluffs against people who fold around 65% or more to 3bets.

They are already folding enough to nearly auto profit from 3betting them. What's more, if they do decide to look you up, they will have likely a strongish hand that may be difficult to let go on boards where they connect. Take 99-JJ overpair or AK/AQ with TPTK/GK for example vs you flopping a set. If you also happen to have a set at this point, expect to get paid off quite some.

Point is, with small PP, the set mining part after the 3bet is just gravy.

LD1977 said:

I saw some articles where 3betting small PPs is recommended for balance (meaning, you 3bet them as bluffs and fold to 4bet or shove).

Now, I am currently a microstakes player (just to put my opinions in perspective ) and I like 3betting Axs/Kxs as bluffs against some regs because at least I have a blocker then and the equity is not too bad if called.

Click to expand...

I hate 3b-ing Kxs , risk of domination is absolutely there and play can be tricky with TPWK. I actually prefer to advice adding small PPs first to your light 3-bet range first as they are MUCH easier to play postflop

Just remember the player that you are 3B'ing needs
to have 70+BB behind to make it worth your while.....
How many hands for F23B stats be valid? Not a event that
happens too often I would think....

AugustWest said:

Just remember the player that you are 3B'ing needs
to have 70+BB behind to make it worth your while.....
How many hands for F23B stats be valid? Not a event that
happens too often I would think....

Click to expand...

Quite a bit actually...They need to have faced 3 bets at LEAST 20 times to have a reliable number. But if someone appears funky with say 100% foldover 7 hands or no folds after 4-5 3bets you can probably make some good assumptions.

Btw, ya don't need 70+ BB per se if they are folding enough, but yeah, bigger stack is better

As a caveat, do not attempt to 3bet a LAG who doesnt like to foldto 3b, unless you love calling with 3 over cards on the board.Even if you hit a set, their range more often than not isn't going to stack off on most boards. Stick to value hands for these guys

I will 3-bet 22 - 88 pocket pairs if the majority of the below conditions are met.

#1) I have a very strong image
#2) My image generates fold equity post flop
#3) My villains will fold to my aggression post flop unless they flop monster
#4) My villains are very fit-n-fold post flop and fold everything but monsters to double barrels
#5) My villains are aggro however they shut down after one street if they whiff
#6) My villains have a very wide raising range but tend to fold to 3-bets
#7) I'm in position
#8) I have a great grasp of table dynamics
#9) Villains tend to regard 3-bets as QQ+, AK
#10) Decent amount of dead money in the pot
#11) Effective stacks are a minimum of 150bb deep.
#12) fair amount of weakness was shown during the initial preflop raise (i.e. someone does a weak "lets build a pot" raise and several callers)
#13) 3-bet doubles as a squeeze play (again, lots of dead money in the pot to be won, ideally 15bb or more)

I infact tend to limp 50% of the time depending on my position...isnt it good if its a multiway pot and you can hook atleast one person once you hit the set?

also, I read somewhere that the person whose raise you are calling should atleast have 20 times the raise left for you to make a long term profit..

Here are some models I created for set mining.

I did two series of models, one where effective stacks are 100bb deep and one where effective stacks are 50bb deep so you can see how your chip stack actually impacts whether or not setmining is profitable. I also used a preflop raise of 7bb which is more standard for live 1/2nl games where raises are usually around $15











this should give you an idea on profitability and give you a better perspective of just what set mining is and what is required...

NOTE: on some of the charts on the bottom, I make the mistake of saying 3bb when it should say 7bb

interesting models dgiharris. So basically set mining vs 1 opponent 100bb deep is just leaking money?

themosthigh said:

interesting models dgiharris. So basically set mining vs 1 opponent 100bb deep is just leaking money?

Click to expand...

against one villain, its break even at best given the inputs in the model. Of course, if V doesn't raise 7bb but instead raises 4bb then that changes things and it becomes profitable.

but I skewed the raise sizing because villains tend to raise more with their big hands for fear of them "getting cracked".

But yeah, when I'm heads up in the BB with 55 and V raises 7bb from LP and everyone folds, I just fold.

I infact tend to limp 50% of the time depending on my position