3bet Vs Pot bet

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Daithi

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I was just wondering about this since I started practicing to improve my live game betting skills. I noticed that pot-sized seems actually better than 3 bet.

I read in articles that 3bet is more cost effective (less expensive), but I was wondering what your take on this is.

For example, and to keep it simple. $1$2 game. Full ring, Preflop.
Villain (LAG) UTG raises 3xbb (pot $9). Hero MP+1 with AKs.

Normally nowadays online or live, you'd 3bet for value. So Hero re-raises to $18. Everyone else folds. Villain is getting 2.25:1 or he needs equity of 31%. If he had TJs, he has 38.5% equity and technically could call. Local live game; no take.

Now, instead of the 3bet we pot bet. So instead reraise $18, it is $21reraise. Villain is getting 2:1 or 33%. I guess, that still isn't enough to give him bad odds. But in general, isnt a pot bet better than a standard 3bet?


Thanks.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Well either way you are 3 betting. The 3 part comes from the fact that we are raising a villains 2 bet by putting in the 3rd bet, so it is a 3 bet. It isn't a 3 bet because we are 3 xing. Just a coincidence.

With this said you are somewhat splitting hairs with these sizings. All in all I do like 3 betting slightly larger live since players call much more often.
 
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Daithi

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Well either way you are 3 betting. The 3 part comes from the fact that we are raising a villains 2 bet by putting in the 3rd bet, so it is a 3 bet. It isn't a 3 bet because we are 3 xing. Just a coincidence.

With this said you are somewhat splitting hairs with these sizings. All in all I do like 3 betting slightly larger live since players call much more often.

Aha, yeah actually haha. But you know what I mean :). The sizings, it is advocated to raise 3x the bet from IP and (presuming no callers) and 4x from OOP (no callers).

But as I said, isn't the pot size from IP better than 3x size of raise? Perhaps it doesn't make such a huge difference....
 
IPlay

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Aha, yeah actually haha. But you know what I mean :). The sizings, it is advocated to raise 3x the bet from IP and (presuming no callers) and 4x from OOP (no callers).

But as I said, isn't the pot size from IP better than 3x size of raise? Perhaps it doesn't make such a huge difference....

So should we 3b 3x or 3.5x? I think 3.5x is fine in a live setting where people are going to be calling too much but 3x is also fine. Saying which one is better is really going to depend on the game you play in, your image, stack sizes etc... Really hard to give generalized bet size scenarios in live games because they are so different depending on where you are playing.
 
TheBigFinn

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The question really is too general to answer. Is the goal to get a fold or to get money into a pot that you are ahead in? AA KK QQ AK likely want a call, but you won't get one if raise small on big hands and big on small hands. Villians will quickly figure this out. That said I like and even smaller bet, say 2.5 BB.
 
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davidhoyle107

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The only time to 3 bet less than 3 times is if you are value betting and expect them to fold to a 3x bet. My philosophy.
 
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Daithi

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The only time to 3 bet less than 3 times is if you are value betting and expect them to fold to a 3x bet. My philosophy.

Hi David. My dilemma wasn't betting less but actually more.
 
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davidhoyle107

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Hi David. My dilemma wasn't betting less but actually more.

Gotcha. I'd say it depends on the opponent and situation. Calling stations a 4x 5x might be good. Look at f to 3bet stats and adjust accordingly. I honestly only 3bet like 6 percent of hands, so I'm not too worried about my sizing. I know it's going to pay off. 6 percent is really high though.
 
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mrpolyglott

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Yeah, man, the guy above mentioned correctly your misinterpretation of the phrase 3bet. It doesn't mean that we multiply previous bet or BB on 3, it just means that we are 3rd who bet and the sizing depends on a situation you're stuck in in every precise moment, so try to follow your own game feeling and intuition (inner voice). Good luck!:)
 
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EGOR77

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Using 3 bet is actually a little risky, I think that it's already used by more professional players. Not so often I use 3 bet.:jd4:
 
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In tournaments, this is a much more 50/50 kind of decision but in cash games people folding to you is fine; if they refuse to loosen up, keep bet-bullying then until they tilt.

There is not 'betting too much' in cash games if your hand is actually that strong. If you mean bluffing, then never bluff by reraising, this is just asking to be bluffed back or genuinely better back to.
 
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Daithi

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In tournaments, this is a much more 50/50 kind of decision but in cash games people folding to you is fine; if they refuse to loosen up, keep bet-bullying then until they tilt.

There is not 'betting too much' in cash games if your hand is actually that strong. If you mean bluffing, then never bluff by reraising, this is just asking to be bluffed back or genuinely better back to.

Nice tip, thx.
 
MattRyder

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I'd say it depends on the table and your goal. If the table is pretty tight, or at least the player(s) that you're targeting, then that small a difference may make a difference. But generally you're dealing with pretty loose players who are going to call just about anything to see a flop with cards that they like. In the latter case it won't matter much unless you make it to showdown with the winning hand, in which case it's going to be that much bigger a pot to take away.
 
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