3-betting for information and general advice on playing AK profitably

AceKing, the hand that gets a lot of players in trouble. I've been trying to improve my play with it and came up with an observation that most players at micro tend to play their AK over the top putting their whole stacks in the middle and get called by AA or KK which can never bring you profit. I'm not talking about shortstacked players here, but the one's with 100BB stacks. What I've come up with is that by 3-betting my AK I'm narrowing the field to AA KK which are going to 4-bet and QQ which are going to call, so by doing that I kind of know where my hand is at. Even if someone does 4-bet with QQ and I end up folding, the villain was a slight favorite either ways.

We're looking at a different play when against shortstacks as their ranges will be far wider, so at this point we might have him dominated and the price is good enough for us to call that 4-bet shove. I was against Aces once, but the other times it's either QQ or weaker Aces.

So how's that? Any suggestions on improving this?

I will raise with A,K preflop... I may call or 3bet depending on the amounts involved. if I don't hit the flop, I'm left with Ace high and nothing more. Anything more than a min bet and I'm folding!

@SwiftHax
Not really. If you take a typical 6max UTG opening range (about 10% of hands), and knowing that opponent 4bets only KK+ what can be his calling range? As always it depends, but for example if he continues with like bottom 5% of his UTG range you are still about 55% favourite. I think that compensates for the times you have to fold to 4bet. And that's only for UTG range, think about BTN!

This sentence:

SwiftHax said:

by 3-betting my AK I'm narrowing the field to AA KK which are going to 4-bet and QQ which are going to call

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is not entirely true because even at Zoom poker (which is generally tight as...), I see lots of people shoving with suited connectors, pocket pairs, dominated aces or complete garbage. It all comes down to using HUD and identifying opponents' 4bet/shove ranges

Shoving AK preflop is standard.

Betting for information is terrible.

Bet to bluff or bet for value.

SwiftHax said:

What I've come up with is that by 3-betting my AK I'm narrowing the field to AA KK which are going to 4-bet and QQ which are going to call, so by doing that I kind of know where my hand is at. Even if someone does 4-bet with QQ and I end up folding, the villain was a slight favorite either ways.

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People will call your 3-bet with anything, not just QQ? Fair enough folding to a 4-bet but seriously, you think people will only call 3-bets with QQ or close to it?

akaRobbo said:

People will call your 3-bet with anything, not just QQ? Fair enough folding to a 4-bet but seriously, you think people will only call 3-bets with QQ or close to it?

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QQ, pocket pairs or weaker aces are generally the range. If someone goes as far as calling 3-bets with AQ or AJ then I will most likely profit off of them when an Ace hits the board. Basically I'm insuring myself from AA and KK. If I have an Ace high on the flop and my opponent bets, I will most likely fold, if he shows weakness, I might try to induce a fold myself.

SwiftHax said:

QQ, pocket pairs or weaker aces are generally the range. If someone goes as far as calling 3-bets with AQ or AJ then I will most likely profit off of them when an Ace hits the board. Basically I'm insuring myself from AA and KK. If I have an Ace high on the flop and my opponent bets, I will most likely fold, if he shows weakness, I might try to induce a fold myself.

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Suited connectors are also in the range of many players. So if two cards of the same suit are on the flop or just generally a wet board I would be aware of a flush and straights. Aq and AJ are always calling unless you're against a nit, so if the board is dry and you pair your A or K fire away!

I actually sometimes fold AQ and AJ off. Is this a leak?

SwiftHax said:

I actually sometimes fold AQ and AJ off. Is this a leak?

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Depends entirely on the player who 3-bet you. If a tight reg is 3-betting you when you're out of position for example, AQo and AJo can be simple folds. But if a loose player from the big blind 3-bets you and knows your fold to 3-bet % is high then you might think about calling, especially if you've got position. This is where a HUD is so valuable to have.

The key is the specific opponent's range. Against a nit who only 4bets KK+, AK is an easy fold. Against a LAG who 4bets much wider, you may well have to call due to the pot odds even though you're a small dog against his range.

you should never ever ever be stacking off 100bb + deep in a cash game with AK unless you have hand history/player info...AK is just Ace high, it players okay against pairs and is crushed by AA and KK. the value lost from AK vs AA, KK is pretty tremendous, and AK doesn't even play great against 1010, JJ, and QQ.

I don't normally 3bet with AQo but I will with AQs Because when it is suited we are not totally dominated. And if he have a draw to the nut flush we are well positioned and his AK looks rather weak even if he does hit an Ace or a King.


AQo is a danger hand But I do like hitting the queen on the flop and rather watchful when I hit the Ace trying to aim for 2 pair min. Plus the straight is nice as well when you do hit it


When I first learn poker I'd fold it a lot because it was a dangerous hand for me. But now I actually don't mind playing it and it's the other players who should fear it.

But you will get better post play as you gain your experience.



Sorry that was mainly deepstack play. Anyways shortstack.

We just push pre... we hit and make them pot committed. We gamble hard! we can lose 1 or 2 hands but eventually we will get it back off them!

Some people will frown on this but really it's their downfall and we take advantage of any edge we can get! We are in it for a long time not the short time. We lose the hand so what! we know it's coming and high cards is what we want as our draw cards lose value. SO AQ PUSH PUSH PUSH kill kill kill. got it? good! now own!


Main rule of poker #keep it simple! .....


Oh what happens if tight players get us??? well most the time they won't they'll fold to us... They will get us with good hands but we will gain it back by their folds majority of the time. EDGE!


Am I on drugs? NO! do I love poker HELL YES! (Sugar rush) and great session on a high



Best of luck.

I want the least amount of opponents as possible with ak off suit. Suited more players not so bad cause the flush possibility. The ak off or suited never good for all in but bet enough to narrow it down. Odds always increase with less players.

Karozi615 said:

you should never ever ever be stacking off 100bb + deep in a cash game with AK unless you have hand history/player info...AK is just Ace high, it players okay against pairs and is crushed by AA and KK. the value lost from AK vs AA, KK is pretty tremendous, and AK doesn't even play great against 1010, JJ, and QQ.

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What?

at 125bbs someone gets it in preflop and you have to call 100bbs to win 150bbs. why is that wrong? if they are shoving with AK, and JJ+ it is a +EV move to call.

AK is a hand that performs well postflop fairly often, its high equity. until you get like 200bbs deep against smart players its fine to getit in. peoples ranges for shoving preflop should tighten as they get deeper, but AK is still pretty good.

Ubercroz said:

What?

at 125bbs someone gets it in preflop and you have to call 100bbs to win 150bbs. why is that wrong? if they are shoving with AK, and JJ+ it is a +EV move to call.

AK is a hand that performs well postflop fairly often, its high equity. until you get like 200bbs deep against smart players its fine to getit in. peoples ranges for shoving preflop should tighten as they get deeper, but AK is still pretty good.

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Yes I need to learn to play AK deepstack better. Are we better not 3betting or 4betting the deeper we get to protect our stack?

Aces2w1n said:

Yes I need to learn to play AK deepstack better. Are we better not 3betting or 4betting the deeper we get to protect our stack?

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You still fine 3betting and 4betting preflop because the size of your stack doesn't change your equity - what it changes are the reverse implied odds (and implied odds) that you are giving to your opponent.

Your opponent has the ability to make a small preflop mistake (normally something that is -EV) in the hopes that they will capture your stack. When you have 100bb's they can only get 100bb's, so some preflop mistakes will always be losers, even when they do get all of the money. When you are 200bb's deep they are able to get a bigger stack so they can be profitable (if they can play well postflop).

The other thing that happens when you are deepstacked is that people are, just by their nature, less likely to get their stack in with suboptimal hands preflop. So you will be running into fewer people shoving (at least you would hope) with TT or JJ or AQ, etc. Its going to be strictly limited to something in the neighborhood of AA, KK. This is only applicable reasoning against thinking players.

What I would say first is: before you start working on your deepstack play work on your full stack play. It is probably even a good principle to recognize that you are less skilled at deepstack and leave a table once you get into a situation where you have to make deep stack choices. Its good to recognize your strengths and weakness and also helps with BRM.