3 bet preflop

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Zero2Hero

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PT4 LeakTracker suggest that I raise my 3bet preflop %. I watched the little tutorial on it that they provide and willing to look for more spots to do so. I was just curious as to what the general thought on how many BB to raise to in given spots.

Thanks in advance.
 
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thatgreekdude

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If someone opens 3x, i'll usually bump it to 8bbs if I have position and 9bbs if i'm out of position.
 
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GWU73

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I like to 3bet 2.5 to 3x plus 1x for every caller. If I have a very big hand and I am sure someone will call more - I will raise more.
 
Mase31683

Mase31683

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I like 3betting pot.
 
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joe777

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Be aggresive wit premium like AA,KK,QQ and AKs.Always raise or reraise with those even OOP.
 
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ScottishMatt

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Generally I size 3x in position assuming that the open was 3/4x. I'll make it 4x if it's a squeeze spot. OOP I'll generally make it 1/2BB more expensive but it differentiates based on who, and why, I am 3Betting.
 
Mase31683

Mase31683

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Yeah I like 3x IP too, and 4x OOP.

At lower levels I'll often do that + 1/caller to really try and make this thing a HU pot.

But I can be lazier and just click "Pot" so I'll do that as well, lol
 
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TedBear

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Zero2Hero - What is your current 3bet percentage?
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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3bet more against the fish. 4-5x is fine against them. I actually don't like 4xing out of position. I feel when we do it for value it folds too much of our opponents range that we beat.
 
Thinker_145

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You don't need to 3 bet more in micro stakes. Just stick to the top 4 hands and maybe add AQ and JJ on the button but that's it.

In 50NL and above it really pays off to have a higher 3 bet stat because more and more players are using HUD at that level. Now whether its a good idea or not to start 3 betting more depends on how you will play the non premium hands.
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youregoodmate

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You don't need to 3 bet more in micro stakes. Just stick to the top 4 hands and maybe add AQ and JJ on the button but that's it.

In 50NL and above it really pays off to have a higher 3 bet stat because more and more players are using HUD at that level. Now whether its a good idea or not to start 3 betting more depends on how you will play the non premium hands.
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I 3 bet around 8% at the micros and safe to say I crush them at very good WR's. We should be 3 betting for value a lot wider than normal because there are a lot of players that will call us lighter.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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I 3 bet around 8% at the micros and safe to say I crush them at very good WR's. We should be 3 betting for value a lot wider than normal because there are a lot of players that will call us lighter.

I bet around 3% and I have crushed 4NL, 10NL and 20NL.

Of course one can crush with a higher % as well but clearly the OP is not very comfortable with it so that's why I was saying that its not necessary just because PT4 says so. I can stack off micro fish in limped pots as well.

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Zero2Hero

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Zero2Hero - What is your current 3bet percentage?

When I first posted this it was just below 1%. Since then I have gotten it up to 3%. I guess the question I should be asking myself is how it's effecting my results.
 
youregoodmate

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I bet around 3% and I have crushed 4NL, 10NL and 20NL.

Of course one can crush with a higher % as well but clearly the OP is not very comfortable with it so that's why I was saying that its not necessary just because PT4 says so. I can stack off micro fish in limped pots as well.

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You can beat the game like that but its not very good practice for higher limits, nor will you manage as high a winrate as players that can manipulate 3 bet pots well.

You become a dream to play against for a thinking reg (although there are very few at the lower micros). Say UTG opens and you 3 bet. Im sat in the blinds with JJ. This now becomes an easy fold for me.
 
Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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You can beat the game like that but its not very good practice for higher limits, nor will you manage as high a winrate as players that can manipulate 3 bet pots well.

You become a dream to play against for a thinking reg (although there are very few at the lower micros). Say UTG opens and you 3 bet. Im sat in the blinds with JJ. This now becomes an easy fold for me.

At the micros I mostly get action with my big pairs so I saw little reason to 3 bet more wide.

Of course it is a problem at higher limits as I am playing 50NL these days and yes I am getting less action when I 3 bet. Its something I need to work on.

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Thinker_145

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But you know there is another thing. With the amount of C betting at higher levels you can win some big hands by just calling IP. If you 3 bet a marginal hand IP then you are almost never getting called by worse and you will have to get quite lucky on the flop to win or bluff your way out which is very risky in 3 bet pots. So while we increase our value with AA and KK by 3 betting lesser hands but I believe the winning rate of those lesser hands themselves is reduced. I understand I am not a winning player yet at the higher levels and my way of thinking might be completely wrong.

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youregoodmate

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It depends how you are 3 betting. You are clearly 3 betting a very strong value range. This is bad for 2 reasons (at 50nl and higher);

1. You aren't going to get paid as frequently with your nut hands. Like the situation I gave.

2. A reg like myself would target you to put you in difficult positions. You turn your hand face up so I am happy to play hands knowing I can stack you if I hit. Small PP's and suited connectors become a whole lot more valuable.

My standard is to 3bet a polarised range in position and a merged range out of position.

When I 3 bet my polarised range in position Im including most of the hands you do and then bluff hands that I cant profitably flat. A2 and K4 type hands.

When I 3 bet my merged range, mostly from the blinds against a steal, I am 3 betting hands like KQ or AT. The villain is more likely to call a 3 bet when they are in position, therefore, we are 3 betting for value, knowing that they will call with worse and taking control of the pot.

Yes, I understand your point of flatting can be better and that is why I do it when Im in position. The 3 bets are nut hands or bluffs when in position. However, when Im out of position I want control of the pot.
 
Thinker_145

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Ya I have seen regs show up completely random hands in 3 bet pots in 50NL and I am left wondering what is going on haha, you know the situation where your A2 actually hit and you end up in a showdown.

You make interesting points and I'll certainly take these things into account.

BTW I am well aware of the second point you made, I mostly make a big enough 3 bet OOP that you can't profitably set mine me.

I would also not 4 bet AA IP against specific aggro players and it works out pretty well mostly.

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JCgrind

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3b 9BB IP, 10BB OOP, 12BB if sqzing 1raise and 1 call.

it is profitable to 3b ATC vs someone w a F3B of 67%+. 3b these guys with a polarised range. (ie; JJ+, 22-66, A2-A9s, K2-K9s)

vs droolers, widen value 3b range to pretty much suited paint and PPs.
 
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I will bet 10BB to allin,because you have big card,Is it?
 
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a159

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when other raise,you should have a very good card to call
 
Thinker_145

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I had an 8% 3 bet session today and it was fine. Only one of my loose 3 bets got 4 bet so that's fine. Most of the time everyone folded probably because of my current reputation but of course that won't last forever.

I did get into difficult spots having been called without premium hand and hit nothing on flop. But C bet flop was still enough to take down most pots so that feels very nice.

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It depends on the blinds that you have the blinds that has the opening.
If jugas with 50 blind bet your three guy has to be more. If jugas with 100 blind must be larger. If you are no position should also be larger.
For example, if someone opens mp 3 bb and both the op as you have 100 bb You can do 9-10 March 1st bet bb for example.
 
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