3, 4, and even 5 betting on "zone"

Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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Hello all. I have some questions/concerns about cash strategy, specifically in "zone" on Bovada.

There are no reads, no player histories, etc.


So this morning has been pretty whacky on and off.


Sometimes, when I fold, I click "sit out next hand" so I can witness what villains had and all that.


I am seeing people 3 bet from blinds with all sorts of crap. One dude 3-bets into mutiple opponents from SB with 10-6s.

He bombs the flop when he has a FD, checks the turn (board pairs, 3rd club on board) when he gets the flush.

Then on the river, he leads into a board with 4 clubs and it's paired, and the money goes in. He gets ****** up by someone who flopped a set, turned a boat.




This was one of many light 3-bets I have seen. Other instances of 4-bets or even 5-bet ships with spec hands, etc.




So anyways, this brings me to my next point...


I had Q-10s in the CO. I open for 3x. Folds to SB. He 3-bets to like 12x.


Now I am thinking about all this BS I have seen. So I 4-bet him to like 36x. We are both pretty deep. He flats. Oh well, I hope I smash the flop....

Flop comes 8-9-3r.

Villain checks to me. I bet about 3/4 pot with my gutter. Villain could have a bunch of hands here I am thinking, A-K, A-Q, A-J, smaller PPs, who knows what.... I think I might have some FE and maybe he will give me credit for a hand.


He c/r ships.


So I have like 3/4 of my stack in the middle, can I really fold? I guess I could, but I don't.


I just call and hope for a jack. Bam! Jack on turn. Villain has AA and I scoop this huge pot. :eek:


If he had just 5 bet shipped I would have folded pre.


I just don't know soemtimes if people are FOS or they have a hand.



Is this a total donkey kong hand by me? I think it probably was I guess.


It was just that there was soooooooo much aggression in zone this morning. People 3,4,5 betting and getting it in preflop with all sorts of crap.


I was just trying to not let the dude run me over.


I would sure like some input on when to 3-bet, 4-bet whatever with no reads....



Also if that hand was played badly, that too. People were just so crazy on zone today I feel like sometimes enough is enough.


Also, I have played more passive in the past. It has been suggested to me by some that I start playing more aggressive and 3-bet more and all that.


Is this bad?


Thanks in advance for any comments/advice.
 
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baudib1

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csb

he has no reason to ship pre. your sizing is ridiculous
 
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jj20002

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strike of luck, but no matter how they play, a Q-8 raise to 36 bb is beyond the border, no matter the outcome, fortunately you got the nice side of the story but no cheat on yourself since it was bad play, actually i imagine the other guy on tilt because this obviuos bad beat, but anyway there is no reason to raise to 36 bb on any spec hand, is not in the range of a well thinking game, no matter if you think there are players playing such a weird game, because for me is not a good habit not to play good poker no matter if i winning or not

just remember the chances Q-8 vs AA: you had like 1/5 of odds preflop in a 1 to 1 pot ratio
 
IPlay

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That is why I stay away from zone, got open anytime without being 3 bet and I feel like the blinds hit way to often. I feel like I have been the BB three times in a row before.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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csb

he has no reason to ship pre. your sizing is ridiculous

CSB?

As for sizing I thought it was supposed to be around 3x his bet? I have shown HHs before, and people tell me I don't 3-bet big enough etc.

But it was absolutute craziness on zone earlier.

Some dude did the same to me with Q-10s when I had JJ. He just 4-bet shipped and flopped a flush...

I never said it was a good play by me. I think I have been watching too much TV.

If I am going for a 4-bet in the future, or 3-bet whatever, sizing?

C-bet sizing?

Thanks.

strike of luck, but no matter how they play, a Q-8 raise to 36 bb is beyond the border, no matter the outcome, fortunately you got the nice side of the story but no cheat on yourself since it was bad play, actually i imagine the other guy on tilt because this obviuos bad beat, but anyway there is no reason to raise to 36 bb on any spec hand, is not in the range of a well thinking game, no matter if you think there are players playing such a weird game, because for me is not a good habit not to play good poker no matter if i winning or not

just remember the chances Q-8 vs AA: you had like 1/5 of odds preflop in a 1 to 1 pot ratio

It wa Q-10s not Q-8.


Not that it matters either way.


And furthermore, everyone dishes out suck-outs here and there I think. It happens to me enough for sure.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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And I forgot to add:


I am not 4-betting Q-10 cause I think it is the nuts. It was a bluff/play whatever. Horrific yes. I am not perfect.


For probably like an hour or so, every time I raise with decent hands, I am getting 3-bet, SS are 4-bet shipping, etc.


I was tired of it I suppose.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Standard 3b size = 3x bet size (9 or 10 bb usually)
Standard 4b size = 2.2-2.5x bet size (20 to 25 bb usually)

Cbetting in 3bet and 4bet pots can be way smaller, especially with air, since it's so easy for the money to go in otherwise. Actually it's still easy for the money to go in, but if there were 72bb in the middle on the flop, I'm guessing SPR was no more than 2.5? How deep were you?
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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Standard 3b size = 3x bet size (9 or 10 bb usually)
Standard 4b size = 2.2-2.5x bet size (20 to 25 bb usually)

Cbetting in 3bet and 4bet pots can be way smaller, especially with air, since it's so easy for the money to go in otherwise. Actually it's still easy for the money to go in, but if there were 72bb in the middle on the flop, I'm guessing SPR was no more than 2.5? How deep were you?

I think 150 BBs or so.

Estimates on sizing also. It was from memory.

Edit: I just remember 4-bet was $1.80ish, so probably around $3.75 in pot.

I bet like $3.00 maybe on flop. I think I had like $2something left after flop bet.
 
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