2NLHE, When is enough, enough (time to quit)

Fuffufnick

Fuffufnick

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I'd like to have some opinions on when it's time to leave the table while up. So many times I have sessions that can be best described with the adage, "15 years to grow a tree, 15 minutes to cut it down" as I double, triple and even quadruple my buy in only to get stacked in a run of set ups, river beats... etc. I'm, obviously, not looking to supplement my income at these stakes, having fun being the primary goal, I would still like to walk with a win; especially considering I freerolled all my BRs (not the easiest thing in the world as we all know) so the balance is important to me.

Thanx
 
RodneyC86

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Post some hands. Ones with the river disasters.

Looks like you may have trouble letting go of hands when you are very likely beat and you also call down lighter because you get overconfident when you quadruple
 
zEric7x

zEric7x

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I usually stop playing after a set time. About 2 hours or so no matter if I am ahead or behind. It is so I don't get bored and start playing bad.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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If you are playing well, and making good decisions, continue.

If you are paying people off, and calling river raises with hands that can't possibly be good, quit.

I agree with what Rodney said - post some hands for review.
 
Fuffufnick

Fuffufnick

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Post some hands. Ones with the river disasters.

Looks like you may have trouble letting go of hands when you are very likely beat and you also call down lighter because you get overconfident when you quadruple

Thanks for showing some interest. Since I was really only wishing to see some criteria for taking winnings south and not looking for critique of my play with this post, believing that was more appropriately done in the hand analysis section, I was unprepared to post HHs. However, since you have taken the time to respond and ask I now feel obliged to post a couple here. Please bare in mind I do not run a HUD so it took me a bit of digging (not really a bad thing as it caused me a bit of forced homework review) and HHs are only stored for 30 days on this site so these two are not the worst by far (I have since taken more of a small-ball, lower risk/ less gamble line whenever possible). Nonetheless, with that said, I do think these are quite typical though probably not presented well. (A bit long and drawn out for HHs I mean) Thanks again for your interest.

Game started
Game ID: XXXXXXXXX 0.01/0.02 Elenite - 5 (Hold'em)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 3: GriFManG (3).
Seat 4: DUDEWHAT (3.19).
Seat 5: Hero (6.08).
Seat 6: santafreak (2.47).
Player santafreak has small blind (0.01)
Player GriFManG has big blind (0.02)
Player santafreak received a card.
Player santafreak received a card.
Player GriFManG received a card.
Player GriFManG received a card.
Player DUDEWHAT received a card.
Player DUDEWHAT received a card.
Player Hero received card: [Kh]
Player Hero received card: [Ks]
Player DUDEWHAT folds
Player Hero raises (0.06)
Player santafreak folds
Player GriFManG calls (0.04)
*** FLOP ***: [4s 2s Qd]
Player GriFManG checks
Player Hero bets (0.06)
Player GriFManG raises (0.18)
Player Hero raises (0.36)
Player GriFManG calls (0.24)
*** TURN ***: [4s 2s Qd] [7d]
Player GriFManG checks
Player Hero bets (0.62)
Player GriFManG calls (0.62)
*** RIVER ***: [4s 2s Qd 7d] [Jc]
Player GriFManG allin (1.90)
Player Hero calls (1.90)
------ Summary ------
Pot: 5.71. Rake 0.30
Board: [4s 2s Qd 7d Jc]
*Player GriFManG shows: Two pairs. Qs and Js [Qh Jh]. Bets: 3. Collects: 5.71. Wins: 2.71.
Player DUDEWHAT does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Player Hero shows: One pair of Ks [Kh Ks]. Bets: 3. Collects: 0. Loses: 3.
Player santafreak does not show cards.Bets: 0.01. Collects: 0. Loses: 0.01.
Game ended at



Game ID: XXXXXXXXXX 0.01/0.02 Elenite - 9 (Hold'em)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: santafreak (0.54).
Seat 2: RusherACR (3.47).
Seat 3: Hero (3.88).
Seat 4: Biltmore (1.85).
Seat 5: dixhead (0.78).
Seat 6: stfuhad1out (2).
Player dixhead has small blind (0.01)
Player stfuhad1out has big blind (0.02)
Player dixhead received a card.
Player dixhead received a card.
Player stfuhad1out received a card.
Player stfuhad1out received a card.
Player santafreak received a card.
Player santafreak received a card.
Player RusherACR received a card.
Player RusherACR received a card.
Player Hero received card: [Kd]
Player Hero received card: [Kh]
Player Biltmore received a card.
Player Biltmore received a card.
Player santafreak folds
Player RusherACR folds
Player Hero raises (0.06)
Player Biltmore raises (0.10)
Player dixhead folds
Player stfuhad1out calls (0.08)
Player Hero raises (0.44)
Player Biltmore calls (0.40)
Player stfuhad1out allin (1.90)
Player Hero allin (3.38)
Player Biltmore allin (1.35)
Uncalled bet (1.88) returned to Hero
*** FLOP ***: [8c 10h 7s]
*** TURN ***: [8c 10h 7s] [4c]
*** RIVER ***: [8c 10h 7s 4c] [9h]
------ Summary ------
Pot: 5.57. Rake 0.29
Board: [8c 10h 7s 4c 9h]
Player santafreak does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
Player RusherACR does not show cards.Bets: 0. Collects: 0. Wins: 0.
*Player Hero shows: One pair of Ks [Kd Kh]. Bets: 2. Collects: 0.30. Loses: 1.70.
*Player Biltmore shows: Three Of Kind of 7s [7d 7h]. Bets: 1.85. Collects: 5.27. Wins: 3.42.
Player dixhead does not show cards.Bets: 0.01. Collects: 0. Loses: 0.01.
Player stfuhad1out shows: One pair of 9s [As 9c]. Bets: 2. Collects: 0. Loses: 2.
Game ended
 
RodneyC86

RodneyC86

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First hand....raise preflop larger, if you know your opponents are fish (usually so at 2nl). At least 4 BB. Then bomb the flop larger. Why? There's a flush draw there. GII on the flop with overpair is standard at 2nl. Lots of bad players paying you off with tpwk at 2nl. as played I would like to think river is a fold, specially of your opponent is a passive fish. Them waking up on a river almost always means something better than tptk. The times they are bluffing are just so few and far in between you should not be picking them out.

what can you do about the 2nd hand? It's just a cooler .... Don't
Let it get to you.
 
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ricksterrick

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My mom would say something like know when it's good to walk away. I don't believe in that. The tables on NL2 are probably always good. If I were you I would work on my deepstack game or if you're not comfortable playing deepstacked and experienced enough to make big laydowns. I would switch tables and rebuy for minimum whenever you double or triple up.
 
Fuffufnick

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Thanks for your input guys. It's much appreciated. I can definitely see your point Rodney and have considered opening larger as a general rule. 3x is my normal open so I figure opening larger with bigger hands would be a tell, hence I don't do it. With lesser hands I really don't want to inflate the pot unnecessarily, though it is true that many at these micro, micro stakes do vary their opening raises anywhere from limps to 10x pretty regularly. It might go undetected. With KK I do want some action though even if it does risk taking a beat; which I may have taken anyway even if the J came on the flop or turn rather than the river. (Maybe not if he had rejammed... IDK) I could and should have gotten away at the river for sure since it's only one pair. I'll definitely give it some thought.. thanx.

Rick, I might have to take Mom's advice. The trouble being knowing when that time is. I'd much rather play deep than short in order to realize full equity on my winning hands plus be able to apply max pressure on my rare bluffs. Switching tables IS probably the answer. I'm just too lug-headed to want to leave when I'm running well. But as we all know, the run good only lasts until it doesn't. Thanx bud. :D
 
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JPoling

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1st hand I would of been opening with 4xBB. Then on flop with that flop betting the pot not half. Then his check-call on turn into a shove-bet on the river. I mean there I would be thinking he hit a big piece of that river..or big air bet. 2nd hand. Total bad luck. Nothing else you could of did.
 
FanatsLV

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i think when you double your bankrooll than is time to quit from the table...
if you slowly losse your bankrooll than just need try get your start bay-in back and thand go away if that cant realize go away and try to the next table...
This is the way how i play that is my little strategy....
Good luck.
 
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These two hands really show two very tiny things.

1. Bet size. Pre-flop was light as was your bet on the flop. If your bet on the flop was higher than 2/3rds pot size, there'd be less incentive for your opponent to check raise you. They'd either be looking to call in hopes that you'd do the work for them (assuming they are good). Or play cautiously by assuming they might not be. Either way you should be doing more than 1/2 pot betting here.

Now that's not to say you might get to the river and have the lesser hand. Just try to get there on your own terms and try to make a sound judgement on how likely you are beat based on what the person is betting/calling.

2. You got it in with KK. Sometimes 77 hits a set. Sometimes it turns out someone had AA. It's all good, just goes wrong on occasion.
 
JPoling

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I just came back and noticed on first hand. That was just horribly played especially post flop. You bet so small into the pot. Then he 3-bets you and you come back with a min raise? Logically that was worse play. If you 4bet him he would of basically been put into a shove-fold position almost cause if he called your 4bet would of been about 1/3 his stack in pot on flop. Also, his 3-bet was pretty decent by him since you bet so small. He basically bet what you should of first time you had chance.
 
Staneff

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You show 2 hands in which you have 6x buy-in and 3x buy-in so maybe leaving a table between these 2 values is a good for your bankroll.
GL with the cowboys :D
 
S

somersetlad9

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depends on how many buyin's you have lost at that level
 
Nathan Williams

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One of the biggest things to learn in this game is that it is all one long session. We always want to compartmentalize each time we sit down at the table and of course book a win. But in reality it doesn't matter at all. The only thing that matters is where we stand in the long run which can take months or even years depending on your level of volume. The only thing that you should be asking yourself is if you played these hands where you lost well or not. If the answer is yes, you played them well, then you have nothing to worry about. The short term variance all sorts itself out over the long run.
 
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tomnovember

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Just control your mood and not be on tilt. Play freely as you want.
 
weldphaser

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my personal exp man i got stuck @ 25nl on lock before they dropped off the face of the earth. part of it was i was totally overloading myself . i burnt myself right out to thje point i wasn't even having fun anymore.

Now, @ 2nl you should be able to play straight forward and beat it in 15,000-20,000 HANDS.

Play shorter sessions, and don't over level yourself. you should have no prob beating 2nl, just kep at it man
 
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