2nl Zoom

Meur5ault · Apr 21, 2020

Correct fold?
Villain loose/passive but not many hands
pokerstars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Valerulja (UTG): $6.86 (343 bb)
InnerRingSting (UTG+1): $1.55 (78 bb)
Alekss 737 (MP): $2.04 (102 bb)
mitsu0630 (MP+1): $1.00 (50 bb)
meur5ault (LP): $3.45 (173 bb)
Marcelinh097 (CO): $2.37 (119 bb)
GaliRah (BU): $2.17 (109 bb)
Jakob66 (SB): $2.13 (107 bb)
Katelpiller (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (meur5ault) is LP with A♠ Q♠
Valerulja (UTG) raises to $0.04, 3 players fold, meur5ault (LP) 3-bets to $0.08, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.08, 4 players fold

Flop: ($0.23) T♥ Q♥ 3♠ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.14, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.14

Turn: ($0.51) 3♦ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.32, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.32

River: ($1.15) 6♣ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.72, Marcelinh097 (CO) raises to $1.83 (all-in), meur5ault (LP) folds

Total pot: $2.59 (Rake: $0.09)
Marcelinh097 (CO) wins $2.50

Evan Jarvis · Apr 21, 2020

Meur5ault said:
Correct fold?
Villain loose/passive but not many hands
PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Valerulja (UTG): $6.86 (343 bb)
InnerRingSting (UTG+1): $1.55 (78 bb)
Alekss 737 (MP): $2.04 (102 bb)
mitsu0630 (MP+1): $1.00 (50 bb)
meur5ault (LP): $3.45 (173 bb)
Marcelinh097 (CO): $2.37 (119 bb)
GaliRah (BU): $2.17 (109 bb)
Jakob66 (SB): $2.13 (107 bb)
Katelpiller (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (meur5ault) is LP with A♠ Q♠
Valerulja (UTG) raises to $0.04, 3 players fold, meur5ault (LP) 3-bets to $0.08, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.08, 4 players fold

Flop: ($0.23) T♥ Q♥ 3♠ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.14, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.14

Turn: ($0.51) 3♦ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.32, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.32

River: ($1.15) 6♣ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.72, Marcelinh097 (CO) raises to $1.83 (all-in), meur5ault (LP) folds

Total pot: $2.59 (Rake: $0.09)
Marcelinh097 (CO) wins $2.50

It is probably a fine fold on the river, your opponent is unlikely to be bluffing here.
KK, TT, AA make sense

That being said, preflop it would be nice to see you 3-bet to a larger sizing, something like 3-3.5x the initial opening raise (so .12-.14)

Hope that helps!

TheGenera1 · Apr 22, 2020

Easy fold against a tight passive. He likely had TT, or quad 3s. KK AA is possible, but tight passives don't like to go all in after the flop without a set or better.

fundiver199 · Apr 22, 2020

I think, this hand is about planning ahead. You created a situation, where you had put in half your stack on the river, and then you got raised. I dont think, you should have created such a situation in the first place. As a general rule of thumb you should never put in more than 35-40% of your stack, unless you intend to stack off on a clean runout.

So how do you avoid this river spot? Well first off the 3-bet need to be much larger, as Evan Jarvis already said. Its perfectly fine to go to 8BB against a mini-raise. The next thing to consider is, if your hand is a 2-street or a 3-street hand. And I think, it is more of a 2-street hand in a 3-bet pot.

Unless he is a fish, you are targeting pretty much exactly KQ on the river. And KQ is only a very small part of his range. What he has a lot more often is a busted draw or a hand, that beat you. And against that kind of range the best play is to check-call, when you are out of position.

I am not loving the bet-fold on the river, because it rely on an assumption, that Villain is completely unable to bluff. This might be true sometimes, but if you get it slightly wrong, you are getting completely owned. Especially on a runout like this, where there are a ton of busted draws. You want to get to showdown with very strong hands like this, even at the cost of sometimes missing out on a tiny bit of value.

Meur5ault · Apr 22, 2020

fundiver199 said:
I think, this hand is about planning ahead. You created a situation, where you had put in half your stack on the river, and then you got raised. I dont think, you should have created such a situation in the first place. As a general rule of thumb you should never put in more than 35-40% of your stack, unless you intend to stack off on a clean runout.

So how do you avoid this river spot? Well first off the 3-bet need to be much larger, as Evan Jarvis already said. Its perfectly fine to go to 8BB against a mini-raise. The next thing to consider is, if your hand is a 2-street or a 3-street hand. And I think, it is more of a 2-street hand in a 3-bet pot.

Unless he is a fish, you are targeting pretty much exactly KQ on the river. And KQ is only a very small part of his range. What he has a lot more often is a busted draw or a hand, that beat you. And against that kind of range the best play is to check-call, when you are out of position.

I am not loving the bet-fold on the river, because it rely on an assumption, that Villain is completely unable to bluff. This might be true sometimes, but if you get it slightly wrong, you are getting completely owned. Especially on a runout like this, where there are a ton of busted draws. You want to get to showdown with very strong hands like this, even at the cost of sometimes missing out on a tiny bit of value.

I agree the 3bet is too small. It was a bit auto click plating 4 zoom tables. However, In this case I don't think the villain would of folded or played any differently unless I shove pre or on the flop. I'm averse to doing that with only a pair unless I have specific reads.

I disagree with the rest of your analysis.
Against LP players, It's usually fine to bet for value every street, until you see aggresion back. The reason I posted the hand was that sometimes, I have seen, bluffs on the river, but not usually a shove. Just wanted to confirm it wasn't too nitty a fold.

Meur5ault · Apr 22, 2020

Thanks all for the comments.

TheGenera1 · Apr 22, 2020

I think you should listen to Fundivers analysis more closely, I do believe he is more correct that perhaps your own analysis is.

Meur5ault · Apr 22, 2020

TheGenera1 said:
I think you should listen to Fundivers analysis more closely, I do believe he is more correct that perhaps your own analysis is.

Faie enough. I want to learn. I appreciate more knowledgeable players than me. But what I have found on poker forums before, is that someone will post a lecture of what I should have done with no why I should have done it. I was merely provoking discussion.

fundiver199 · Apr 22, 2020

Against fish its not a terrible idea to bet for value, until they start fighting back. My suggestion to bet flop, bet turn but check river will work better against slightly more competent and aggressive players. Its not completely black and white though. Currently I mostly play 25NL, and at a limit like that even recreational players will sometimes bluff, when you miss a bet and check to them.

Also this hand is a little difficult to analyse because of the preflop sizing misclick. Compared to a situation, where we made a larger 3-bet, Villains range will be wider. This is good, because then he might have hands like QJ or Q9. But it also makes it more likely, he has 3X, which makes the value of top pair go down on the turn and river. He might have decided, it was fine to put in those 4BB with 73s to try and make a flush. But instead he makes trips, and he owns us completely on the turn and river.

Meur5ault · Apr 22, 2020

fundiver199 said:
Against fish its not a terrible idea to bet for value, until they start fighting back. My suggestion to bet flop, bet turn but check river will work better against slightly more competent and aggressive players. Its not completely black and white though. Currently I mostly play 25NL, and at a limit like that even recreational players will sometimes bluff, when you miss a bet and check to them.

Also this hand is a little difficult to analyse because of the preflop sizing misclick. Compared to a situation, where we made a larger 3-bet, Villains range will be wider. This is good, because then he might have hands like QJ or Q9. But it also makes it more likely, he has 3X, which makes the value of top pair go down on the turn and river. He might have decided, it was fine to put in those 4BB with 73s to try and make a flush. But instead he makes trips, and he owns us completely on the turn and river.

OK. Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to explain further. I will endeavour to add this advice to my game.

antonis32123 · Apr 25, 2020

I would 3bet x8bb preflop on the CO or BU on a normal cash game , but MP+2/LP on the ZOOM 2nl games with UTG minraise ??? No

, just call

and play it passively postflop with check-calls

If it was a normal not-ZOOM cash game , I would 3bet preflop x2 , bet two streets , then on the river check-call , even call a shove without king or ace on the board . But in 2nl ZOOM I just call , even AQ suited , then check-call al stteets , maybe fold on the river , only if I have at least 2 pairs I am going for 3 street value bets .
On ZOOM 2nl I like reraising most of the times only AK suited or not (blind fights on the SB vs BB , BU or CO , or BB vs SB , BU or CO are exceptions ) especially the AK on the CO or BU , if he shoves then my call depends on my stack in comparison to the pot , not that I prefer doing it on the ZOOM games , many follow extremelly loose and strange bet line and hand range decisions .

Meur5ault · Apr 26, 2020

antonis32123 said:
I would 3bet x8bb preflop on the CO or BU on a normal cash game , but MP+2/LP on the ZOOM 2nl games with UTG minraise ??? No , just call and play it passively postflop with check-calls If it was a normal not-ZOOM cash game , I would 3bet preflop x2 , bet two streets , then on the river check-call , even call a shove without king or ace on the board . But in 2nl ZOOM I just call , even AQ suited , then check-call al stteets , maybe fold on the river , only if I have at least 2 pairs I am going for 3 street value bets .
On ZOOM 2nl I like reraising most of the times only AK suited or not (blind fights on the SB vs BB , BU or CO , or BB vs SB , BU or CO are exceptions ) especially the AK on the CO or BU , if he shoves then my call depends on my stack in comparison to the pot , not that I prefer doing it on the ZOOM games , many follow extremelly loose and strange bet line and hand range decisions .

Why is your zoom strategy so different from non zoom ring game?

TheGenera1 · Apr 26, 2020

The strategy isn't different as such, it's just the player pool is much better.

antonis32123 · Apr 27, 2020

Meur5ault said:
Why is your zoom strategy so different from non zoom ring game?

Too much action at the 2nl ZOOM

, too many action cards

_xgeb_ · Apr 28, 2020

I play a lot of NL 2 zoom and I have a lot of winnings there. I play at 4 tables at once. Preflop I like to do 3bet of 10BB or 12BB ... I usually play aggressive ... AQs is a strong hand but to play cautiously. That is why it is necessary to play aggressive preflop to have information about which hands the opponent can have. Then with that flop, I would bet big, 75% of the pot. If you get to the cheap turn and river it will be difficult for you to know what range of cards your opponent has since in these limits people are usually scared and the range widens a lot if you play passively

Igor Popadyk · Apr 29, 2020

I agree with the opinion that it was played a little passively, I would play such a limit more aggressively, more you will understand the range of the enemy

pohewa · May 27, 2020

I would have, or how our legend below said, the better play would've been being aggro early I guess.

Meur5ault said:
Correct fold?
Villain loose/passive but not many hands
PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 9 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

Valerulja (UTG): $6.86 (343 bb)
InnerRingSting (UTG+1): $1.55 (78 bb)
Alekss 737 (MP): $2.04 (102 bb)
mitsu0630 (MP+1): $1.00 (50 bb)
meur5ault (LP): $3.45 (173 bb)
Marcelinh097 (CO): $2.37 (119 bb)
GaliRah (BU): $2.17 (109 bb)
Jakob66 (SB): $2.13 (107 bb)
Katelpiller (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (meur5ault) is LP with A♠ Q♠
Valerulja (UTG) raises to $0.04, 3 players fold, meur5ault (LP) 3-bets to $0.08, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.08, 4 players fold

Flop: ($0.23) T♥ Q♥ 3♠ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.14, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.14

Turn: ($0.51) 3♦ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.32, Marcelinh097 (CO) calls $0.32

River: ($1.15) 6♣ (2 players)
meur5ault (LP) bets $0.72, Marcelinh097 (CO) raises to $1.83 (all-in), meur5ault (LP) folds

Total pot: $2.59 (Rake: $0.09)
Marcelinh097 (CO) wins $2.50

2nl Zoom

Meur5ault

Enthusiast

Evan Jarvis

Legend

TheGenera1

Visionary

fundiver199

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Meur5ault

Enthusiast

Meur5ault

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TheGenera1

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Meur5ault

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fundiver199

Legend

Meur5ault

Enthusiast

antonis32123

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Meur5ault

Enthusiast

TheGenera1

Visionary

antonis32123

Legend

_xgeb_

Rock Star

Igor Popadyk

Legend

pohewa

Rock Star

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