$2nl strategy

-Phil Ivey27

-Phil Ivey27

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I'd like to read some opinions on how you guys take/would take to playing $2nl 9 player cash games. My bankroll is not yet at $75, or so, therefore I am stuck playing at these tables. I generally don't have much of a problem gaining profit at these games, but I still would like to hear strategy to possibly improve my game. It is clear that most players there are nits, the problem is I am very tight myself, therefore only coming down with the occasional clash for a big pot. Chances of me getting a great hand along with them as well considering their tight play.* Would anyone reccomend maniac play? Or stick to my strategy and small profits?
 
brank

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I think table selection is the most important. Having nits in the blinds to your left and the LAGtards on your right. It should only take a round or two to figure out how the table is going to play. If the table is not suitable then leave ASAP. I also use filters to only show tables that have a big average pot size and high % of players to a flop which usually means it has loose players or a lot of limpers that are easy to exploit. The sit tight and play a couple tables at a time.

If you do this then value town the calling stations that you have to your right.
 
thepokerkid123

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1: When you are sitting at a table full of nits, if you're playing as tight as they are, you're playing badly.
When playing online, I don't think there's anything wrong with considering yourself tight or loose, since you can usually table select games that work well for that style but when that doesn't work, adapt.

2: It's not that you need to play like a maniac, that would be suicide, what you probably need to do is play TAG (which is a whole lot more than just playing tight). You need to steal their blinds, you need to 3bet a lot against most players (they'll make it easy to spot who's who, tight play is usually very predictable). Don't play like a maniac, just play a good TAG game and you'll be fine.

Microstakes FR nits are all sitting there waiting for their fullhouse over someone else's set so they can feel like some awesome pro when they get their chips in. If you fall into the same trap you'll just be trading stacks back and forth and hoping that the money the maniacs donate is enough to beat the rake, and it probably isn't.
 
-Phil Ivey27

-Phil Ivey27

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^^ I agree with alot of what's said there.

I don't have much of a problem with these games, I usually do what you listed above except for 3betting which I don't do often against these tight players.

I just want to see how some other players play it, and maybe find success, because I have never taken a loose aggressive approach in these games, and it seems as that might work.

I like the advice up top though, I think that's the standard neccesary guide to succeed here.
 
forsakenone

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alright, i play tons of 2nl, here is how i start, select to see tables by average pot, biggest average pot above (btw i play 24 tables on pokerstars), start joining any tables that has more than 7 players and at least 35% players/flop, if the table is full i join wating list as long as it has no more than 1 player in wating list.

if there are tons of player online, lets say a saturday, and there are 250.000 players on pokerstars i try to join only tables with 40% players/flop, if there are only 100.000 players online i have to start joining at 35% players/flop.

anyway, no idea what site you play on, or how many tables you do at a time, but make sure you chose tables with a big average pot and a good players/flop, it will get you to loose tables, with people that are willing to gamble, and thats where you make your money.

you sayd "It is clear that most players there are nits", i wanted to rip on your for that, tells me you probably join the first table you see :p

with these said i wish you best of luck sir!
 
absoluthamm

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-Phil Ivey27 said:
I'd like to read some opinions on how you guys take/would take to playing $2nl 9 player cash games. My bankroll is not yet at $75, or so, therefore I am stuck playing at these tables. I generally don't have much of a problem gaining profit at these games, but I still would like to hear strategy to possibly improve my game. It is clear that most players there are nits, the problem is I am very tight myself, therefore only coming down with the occasional clash for a big pot. Chances of me getting a great hand along with them as well considering their tight play.* Would anyone reccomend maniac play? Or stick to my strategy and small profits?
Click to expand...

I'm hoping that you're not meaning that you're going to move up to 5NL when your BR gets to $75 because that would be just as bad as moving up right now. That would only be 15 buy-ins for 5NL.

I disagree with this, but that's probably because I use good table selection. At most I will have 2 or 3 nits at my table. The rest of the opponents at the table will be 30+ VPIP's. If you are just opening up the first free tables that you find, you're going to get the massive multi-tabler nits like forsaken, who you will be able to steal a lot of blinds from, but you more than likely won't be taking any big pots from them. It's not the end of the world to have to wait 5 or 10 minutes to get into a table that is juicy as hell, it's worth it I promise.

thepokerkid123 said:
2: It's not that you need to play like a maniac, that would be suicide, what you probably need to do is play TAG (which is a whole lot more than just playing tight). You need to steal their blinds, you need to 3bet a lot against most players (they'll make it easy to spot who's who, tight play is usually very predictable). Don't play like a maniac, just play a good TAG game and you'll be fine.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with 3Betting, but you really need to watch the draws on the board postflop because it is VERY common for terrible players to call 3Bets(even 4Bets and 5Bets) with Q9 type hands and any suited Ace. Granted we are making the most money on these guys when they are calling with this crap, but eventually, their hand is going to pull through and you just need to be aware.
 
-Phil Ivey27

-Phil Ivey27

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I planned on playing a little once I reached $75, fully when I reached over $100. I have played before many times at these stakes, with success, so that would be my only reason for starting a little early.

It has also become clear to me that my table selection clearly has been very poor and thank you guys for pointing me to that aspect of the tables.
 
absoluthamm

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Well as long as you have the reserves to reload if variance kicks you in the ass....
 
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I don't think much table selection is necessary for 2nl. Everyone is bad, including you and anyone else who is beating the level. This isn't arrogance btw, I suck too. stay tight, for 9max a vpip of 12-15 I believe is decent. 3betting light is generally not a good idea considering that most of your opponents have no grasp for what you are doing, its the same reason that a squeeze would never work.
tight, positional, and aggressive play wins in 2nl. avoid playing from EP and you'll avoid bleeding, you avoid the bleeding and you increase your winnings
 
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Interesting topic. Besides what everyone else said about table selection, even if you do it right you'll find yourself at a nitty table once in a while (especially if you multi-table).

If the network you play is small-ish, there won't be that many extra juicy tables to choose from, so you can stick around at that table, most nits are bad players too.

I experimented with such a situation a few days ago at 20NL, 2 of my 4 tables were nit-filled, not too many good tables were on so I said ok I'll stick with this and stick it to them. Made a conscious decision to be uber-aggro.

The stats I remember on 1 table after 150 hands were something like 50 VPIP, 40 PFR, 6 or 7 AF, 21% 3-bet (I blush just when I think of that lol), 90% or more blind steal etc. etc. - for comparison my stats over 50K hands are around 24/20/3 and 7% 3-bet.

And guess what? I won 2 1/2 BI's in a short period. 1 time I 3-bet this nit with 3-2 offsuit, he had QQ and just called, I flopped 2-pair and in went most of his stack. That gave me a free pass to continue that style on the table.

The secret is to really pound them, raise their cbets with air, 3-bet light all the time etc. just shut down when they give you action. A few better nits might start playing back at you, but there are very few at 20NL so I guess you don't even have to worry about that at 2NL
 
thepokerkid123

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ComplexPlaya said:
Interesting topic. Besides what everyone else said about table selection, even if you do it right you'll find yourself at a nitty table once in a while (especially if you multi-table).

If the network you play is small-ish, there won't be that many extra juicy tables to choose from, so you can stick around at that table, most nits are bad players too.

I experimented with such a situation a few days ago at 20NL, 2 of my 4 tables were nit-filled, not too many good tables were on so I said ok I'll stick with this and stick it to them. Made a conscious decision to be uber-aggro.

The stats I remember on 1 table after 150 hands were something like 50 VPIP, 40 PFR, 6 or 7 AF, 21% 3-bet (I blush just when I think of that lol), 90% or more blind steal etc. etc. - for comparison my stats over 50K hands are around 24/20/3 and 7% 3-bet.

And guess what? I won 2 1/2 BI's in a short period. 1 time I 3-bet this nit with 3-2 offsuit, he had QQ and just called, I flopped 2-pair and in went most of his stack. That gave me a free pass to continue that style on the table.

The secret is to really pound them, raise their cbets with air, 3-bet light all the time etc. just shut down when they give you action. A few better nits might start playing back at you, but there are very few at 20NL so I guess you don't even have to worry about that at 2NL
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree.

Playing too agro against nits is asking to get busted. Most people have probably come across a fish "schooling" effect where a bunch of calling stations make each loose call a smaller mistake than if that station was on his own. Same sort of thing with nits, you can pound the crap out of one of them but if the table is full of them you should be playing tighter than if you were against a table of LAGs, in both games you'd be aiming to be closer to TAG stats than they are. Against someone who's running 15/12, you might find running 19/18 near optimal, against someone who's running 35/30 somewhere closer to 25/22 is nearer to optimal... against someone who's playing too loose they're highly exploitable so you can widen up a bit as long as you're tighter, against someone who's too tight you can play wider than they are but not as loose as against the LAGs.

If they're each playing 15% of hands (assuming they're not positionally aware because it's 2nl... and it makes it easier to explain) a raise from CO is going to get called more than 45% of the time by a range that absolutely crushes any LAGy range you might be playing, whenever you get caught up in a pot with them your equity is pretty low. I'm not saying don't get creative from CO against these guys, just don't let that 45% get much higher which means playing almost normally tight in most positions and only really noticeably openning up CO/BTN, as well as some player dependent blind vs blind stuff.

Short answer: don't take on many nits because together they're too tough, but when the field is thinned before you, pound away.
 
thepokerkid123

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Just because I don't read stuff properly before responding...

I'll add that bets from nits should be raised sparingly as their cbet percentages are normally lower (i.e. much stronger ranges) and their open raises are done with another really strong range. Sometimes it's profitable, and when it is you can keep doing it relentlessly because they take a long time to adapt, but most of the time I think the best option is to just get out of their way (all you have to do is check their fold to 3bet % to determine which are profitable to 3bet light and which aren't).
 
FereZ

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There's lot of loose and fish players on those small stake tables.
Play all pairs and do setmining, when they hit, you get paid off :)
Ofc play all Big pairs and A hands etc.
 
sharkyo01

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Get hold of Cash Game Killer it's the bee's knee's at Cash Strategy
... If you can not find it drop me pm i'll point you in the right direction.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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thepokerkid123 said:
I strongly disagree.

Playing too agro against nits is asking to get busted. Most people have probably come across a fish "schooling" effect where a bunch of calling stations make each loose call a smaller mistake than if that station was on his own. Same sort of thing with nits, you can pound the crap out of one of them but if the table is full of them you should be playing tighter than if you were against a table of LAGs, in both games you'd be aiming to be closer to TAG stats than they are. Against someone who's running 15/12, you might find running 19/18 near optimal, against someone who's running 35/30 somewhere closer to 25/22 is nearer to optimal... against someone who's playing too loose they're highly exploitable so you can widen up a bit as long as you're tighter, against someone who's too tight you can play wider than they are but not as loose as against the LAGs.

If they're each playing 15% of hands (assuming they're not positionally aware because it's 2nl... and it makes it easier to explain) a raise from CO is going to get called more than 45% of the time by a range that absolutely crushes any LAGy range you might be playing, whenever you get caught up in a pot with them your equity is pretty low. I'm not saying don't get creative from CO against these guys, just don't let that 45% get much higher which means playing almost normally tight in most positions and only really noticeably openning up CO/BTN, as well as some player dependent blind vs blind stuff.

Short answer: don't take on many nits because together they're too tough, but when the field is thinned before you, pound away.
Click to expand...

Well I don't know what to tell you man, that stuff all makes sense, the maniacal strategy can still work though, I mean I've seen it work. Maybe it was just the right bunch of nits for it, in the right mood, at the right time whatever.

Maybe it was variance in the sense they didn't get their playable hands as often, or maybe they got out of the way because whenever I showed down a hand it was good - that's obv important if you're going to use that kind of strategy. Also there were some regs that probably had lots of stats on me and had a tight image of me so they just thought I was on a reaaaaaaly long card run, or that the first 20 or so hands I played I was tight, I don't know. I'll have to keep trying and check the results...

It's an good perspective about nit tables though, I hadn't thought of it that way, put together they are more powerful
 
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