25nl 6max ....

A mistake I am making. Is the solution to bet every time on the following street after I re raise? I can't count how many pots I lose where a bet may have taken down the pot. But then I'll get caught bluffing when I shouldn't have bet....lol. I think the real mistake here is playing this hand in the first place......

$0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 122.44 BB (VPIP: 26.03, PFR: 10.96, 3Bet Preflop: 0.65, hands: 455)
SB: 101.36 BB (VPIP: 17.76, PFR: 13.49, 3Bet Preflop: 0.48, Hands: 632)
BB: 64.8 BB (VPIP: 54.32, PFR: 1.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 83)
Hero (UTG): 349.64 BB
MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 17.19, PFR: 10.23, 3Bet Preflop: 2.70, Hands: 1,122)
CO: 33.4 BB (VPIP: 21.62, PFR: 5.41, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 77)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 7s 9s
Hero raises to 4 BB, MP calls 4 BB, CO calls 4 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 3 BB

Flop : (16.4 BB, 4 players) 5s 8h Jd
BB bets 7.8 BB, Hero calls 7.8 BB, fold, fold

Turn : (32 BB, 2 players) Ac
BB bets 6 BB, Hero raises to 16.12 BB, BB calls 10.12 BB

River : (64.24 BB, 2 players) 2c
BB checks, Hero checks

BB shows 6h Js (One Pair, Jacks) (Pre 55%, Flop 69%, Turn 84%)
Hero mucks 7s 9s (High Card, Ace) (Pre 45%, Flop 31%, Turn 16%)
BB wins 61.04 BB

why in the world are we opening such a weak hand UTG? Also CO likely shoves that stack against you a lot, and button has a wide VP which means your likely never getting this past everyone preflop

really terrible open


your flop peel may be ok, but just look at his HUD stats again another reason why we shouldn't be opening this wide preflop he has played 50% of hands over 80 something hands so bad on your part

turn is just all kinds of bad, unless you have reads. Given we only have 88 hands it is unlikely we have a good idea of what he is doing on the turn.

The worst part of the hand is the river, if we are raising the turn given the Pot to stack ratio ( lets just assume for a minute the raise is exploitable but fine vs this guy) we have to shove the river. He just can't call us without at least an A

all of this could have been avoided by folding preflop

i really think you played every street -ev (sorry river isn't -ev per say but highly suboptimal bc EV of any street when you check or fold is 0 but you lose every single time you check)


If you are going to have a hud why in the hell wouldn't you use it and fold pre? Like seriously that doesn't make any sense to me

like seriously do you really think you have enough postflop skill and reads to open 35% of hands UTG?

that looks like this:22+,A2s+,K3s+,Q6s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,A4o+,K8o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o

like seriously it is funny how you are asking about shoving the river when you made a mistake on every street earlier if you don't put yourself in a lot of low equity spots you will not have to worry about making decisions with low amount of information, that is really the thing to take from this, not " oh i should keep bluffing after i decide to bluff on street" because that is not the case at all

you need to range people and also think about what your range is in situations

Probably best to post this type thread in the hand analysis section.

I was going to ask if you were aggressive against this villain in your session so far, but then I looked again at his stats. VPIP is 54% PFR 1%. I guarantee this person will call you down if he hits any of the flop. You need to choose your opponent if you will make plays like this.

And yes, UTG folds this preflop.

Fold pre-. This is a losing situation. Realistically, the best you can hope for is to lose less, which is still worse than not getting into these situations in the first place.

I might be opening this pre depending on how MP/CO/BTN play postflop. BB is a massive fish and we want to play with him as much as possible, especially when he is in the blinds. Flop is fine, turn is horribad, river is a no-brainer.

ScottishMatt said:

I might be opening this pre depending on how MP/CO/BTN play postflop. BB is a massive fish and we want to play with him as much as possible, especially when he is in the blinds. Flop is fine, turn is horribad, river is a no-brainer.

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playing fish with weak hands is not the way to go about it thou

rumsey182 said:

playing fish with weak hands is not the way to go about it thou

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Going about what?

Playing fish is the way to go about making money. Even with weak hands we profit because they will call down with even weaker hands. It's the regs we have to take into consideration as well and OP probably isn't outplaying these guys postflop with 97s OOP. That is why it is most likely a bad open because it creates tough spots where OP is uncomfortable.

ScottishMatt said:

Going about what?

Playing fish is the way to go about making money. Even with weak hands we profit because they will call down with even weaker hands. It's the regs we have to take into consideration as well and OP probably isn't outplaying these guys postflop with 97s OOP. That is why it is most likely a bad open because it creates tough spots where OP is uncomfortable.

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you beat fish by having a better overall range then them and either value bet or let them spew off to you.

rumsey182 said:

you beat fish by having a better overall range then them and either value bet or let them spew off to you.

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I beat fish by playing better than them, there isn't much more to it than that. 97s IP against a fish = profit.

You obviously disagree, it's cool man. You play your game.

ScottishMatt said:

I beat fish by playing better than them, there isn't much more to it than that. 97s IP against a fish = profit.

You obviously disagree, it's cool man. You play your game.

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your being pretty results oriented. you realize how incredible your implied odds need to be to make your statement correct?

please try and use logic, 97s= profit doesn't pass for logic

rumsey182 said:

your being pretty results oriented. you realize how incredible your implied odds need to be to make your statement correct?

please try and use logic, 97s= profit doesn't pass for logic

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Don't get hyperbolic.

Against a 54% range we have 40% equity with 97s (not to mention that his range in the BB is wider than 54%). There is more to poker than simple equity advantages/disadvantages. And even if there wasn't - with 40% equity IP against a very bad player every capable reg in history should be showing profit. Do you disagree?

Checking at the last was definitely not a good call, considering you had nothing to win. You pretty much are either admitting defeat at that point and giving away your chips or you HAVE to try and bluff him hard to win the pot. Of course he may always call you anyways knowing that he had the main pair on flop. Either way, I'd say that was a pretty bad hand to play. I prefer to bluff in a better position as well, usually either on the button or somewhere closer to the back half.

ScottishMatt said:

Don't get hyperbolic.

Against a 54% range we have 40% equity with 97s (not to mention that his range in the BB is wider than 54%). There is more to poker than simple equity advantages/disadvantages. And even if there wasn't - with 40% equity IP against a very bad player every capable reg in history should be showing profit. Do you disagree?

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your not considering when you are not IP vs the fish in the BB thou, there are so many permutations that will have you being OOP with overall inferior equity.

Your correct to some extent that you can show a profit in terms of the hand, but there are a few things that go into that:

first off: it is not just an equity thing straight off, but you do want to stay somewhat close to the break even point of equity at the very least it just makes things easier to play. If a range is +ev and you add worse hands into the range the overall range can still be +ev, but you didn't raise the overall EV by adding those hands into your range generally speaking. If it was more a a borderline hand that would be a very small +ev or very small -ev hand then it wouldn't be as big of a deal. But we still want to play those borderline situations well, when you think about how we would play and what for example a world class player would do at the same limits generally the things that would be different is they would handle the borderline situations better overall. I think you need to be realistic and remove ego from the equation this is a flaw i had for a long time and it cost me a lot of time and money. It is good your thinking about that thou

secondly: as to being hyperbolic, I'm simply trying to point out how extreme the situation needs to be in your favor to make up for the inherit equity disadvantage. The more we find ourselves against someone that is basically begging to give us money when we hit anything clearly we want to play more hands against them, but there hits a point that we do play way too wide of a range and them playing there "game" of spewing off generally actually becomes slightly better because our range actually is so wide. It really is a balance to play wider ranges versus them without spewing in turn. Again this is something that cost me money, and I'm just trying to make sure you don't fall into the same logical traps that I did

anyways good back and forth