2 Over cards

Z

Zer0-0uts

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Total posts
429
Chips
0
So often I get into a situation where the villain raises preflop. I call with position with something like KQo. An uncoordinated flop hits the board with cards all lower than my over cards. The villain makes a pot sized C-bet. I think about it. I go over the odds in my head. I am getting 3 to 1 pot odds on the call. I have 6.83 to 1 odds on hitting one of my over cards on the turn. At this point it is mathematically wrong to make the call, but I feel folding in this situation is too tight. If I were to make the call and miss the turn, then I have almost the same odds to make my hand on the river. If you look at the odds to make the hand counting both the turn and the river you get 3.15 to 1 odds. What would you do in this situation to assure you are not playing a call preflop and then fold to a c-bet? Maybe float the flop and bet the turn if it is a blank? What should I do in situations like this?
 
Last edited:
gabpoker

gabpoker

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Total posts
625
Awards
5
Chips
8
A pot sized continuation bet is quite large. You should be folding a large portion of your range to that sizing. However by making that large of bet they are usually indicating something about their hand. If you can figure out that it means they have a somewhat marginal hand. You can adjust by sometime raising them with your over cards and see what they do. Especially if you have some back door flushes or straights.
 
Gohaku94

Gohaku94

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 8, 2018
Total posts
606
Chips
0
Well to avoid this situation just raise proflop with those cards. You block alot of big hands with your cards so You will get enough folds vs that type of villain. And If he just calls he is likely to check any flop oop which is good you can always have to option to see the turn when is checked to you.
 
M

MinorMisfit

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Total posts
26
Chips
0
Its ok to float once in a while with two over cards like that. Be careful with KQ though. Sometimes your going to float, hit a pair, and still going to be no good because they have AK or AQ.


I like raising here better. See if the villain really has the over pair. Put some pressure on him, give your self two ways to win the hand. If you hit and your good, and if he folds. Also you could get a free river card if you scare him into checking the turn, then you check behind.


The short answer, Fold or Raise is the best options.
 
nobodysf00l

nobodysf00l

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 8, 2018
Total posts
112
Chips
0
pour an adult beverage and think about the good times....lol
 
IcyNicy

IcyNicy

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Total posts
76
Chips
0
Depends on limits you play. I
For microlimits I came to a conclusion that I should play only if I have at least a middle pair.
What do you hope for calling his cbet? Ok. On the turn or on the river Dr you get your outs, like K or Q. Don't you think you will be dominated even then? With what hand did your opponent raised. If you are sure he is loose enough then call him in order to make a better hand.
And the last question. We're you successful with these moves? If not then it's the time to change your tactics.
 
Z

Zer0-0uts

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 9, 2016
Total posts
429
Chips
0
A pot sized continuation bet is quite large. You should be folding a large portion of your range to that sizing. However by making that large of bet they are usually indicating something about their hand. If you can figure out that it means they have a somewhat marginal hand. You can adjust by sometime raising them with your over cards and see what they do.
gabpoker I agree, the bet sizing is large, and it does speak for the villain's hand. Plus if you include the fact that he donk bet the flop I would have to give him more credit for strength. But on the other hand, if he had a strong hand I would think the line most would take in this situation would be the check raise approach. By donk betting he gets the money in the pot. If I do not have a hand I fold. If I call or reraise he is probably in trouble. Whereas, if he has a hand and he checks to me, then most of the time I am going to C-bet the flop. At this point he can check raise if he has a made hand. If he does this then he either wins my bet if I fold or builds a bigger pot for his made hand.

Well to avoid this situation just raise proflop with those cards. You block alot of big hands with your cards so You will get enough folds vs that type of villain. And If he just calls he is likely to check any flop, which is good you can always have to option to see the turn when is checked to you.
Gohaku94 I think this is a smart approach. If I 3 bet preflop he is more than likely to check to me on the flop. The only problem is 3 betting preflop with a drawing hand is hard for me to do. I am bloating the pot with a speculative hand at best. I should 3 bet more often. This is a big leak in my playing. I am studying 3 different Jonathan Little books right now. I am trying to incorporate things like 3 betting more often.

The short answer, Fold or Raise is the best options.
MinorMisfit it does seem like I am playing too much check fold poker these days.

We're you successful with these moves? If not then it's the time to change your tactics.
IcyNicy Q.F.T.



 
MKaizer07

MKaizer07

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2017
Total posts
76
Chips
0
Honestly, it depends on how the villain has been playing. Is the villain tight, loose, passive-agressive etc.? I would generally fold because most likely they will bet again and are you willing to call another bet or just cut your loss and fold on the flop.
 
elizeuof

elizeuof

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 26, 2015
Total posts
656
Awards
1
Chips
1
You need to analyze your position and the position of the villain, then take into account the attitudes he is taking.


What is the time of the tournament? What is the magnitude of increase of the villain? Why did not you raise preflop? you put the villain in some hand range?


if you are at the beginning of the tournament it is not worth getting involved in complicated hands without a good reading of the villain that allows you to conclude that this is the best option.


if the villain is in the initial positions, and is tight, you can put him in a range of hands that will probably be winning from your hand, beware of bluffing against certain games.
 
Mikeisanace777

Mikeisanace777

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Total posts
150
Chips
0
Just think pair and if you make your hand 2 pair as dead!

When you have QK and the flop rolls 7-4-9 You can assume villain has a9 off suit pocket 10-10 or even lower as 55 to 88 so he probably has a pair! This situation merits fold because even if your playing against what seems to be a good tight player he could surprise you with maniac play now and again when he assumes your range as aq-kq even jj surprisingly. Now with jj your confident here, but his wild maniac hare play of 8-10 and chip leverage could spell doom if you spike j on the turn or better for him a lone 6. With his normal range to medium range just be cautious he also knows your range and might be playing k-9 suited so if the turn rolls 7-4-9-k your 2 paired! Even if you have ace king and know all your odds to catch figure you need the ace even then though as stated that ace 9 makes 2 pair for him if you spike the ace on the turn leaving you only a king to counterfeit think ahead don't just think about the odds of hitting your pair.
 
Bozovicdj

Bozovicdj

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 13, 2017
Total posts
1,501
Awards
15
Chips
0
I think that you can add some variety in these spots. For example, check-raising OOP (it is seemingly strong in your opponent's eyes) considering that opponents will often c-bet with AT+ even if it missed the board. When I am in position and villain c-bets I tend to fold more often, as it is less likely villain is doing it with A high.
The safe play, mathematically, is to fold, just as you said. But you might be losing a lot of value with a hand as strong as KQ so throw in some re-raises pre flop here and there and see whether such play suits you or not.
 
S

SeriousBizzness

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Total posts
136
Chips
0
So often I get into a situation where the villain raises preflop. I call with position with something like KQo. An uncoordinated flop hits the board with cards all lower than my over cards. The villain makes a pot sized C-bet. I think about it. I go over the odds in my head. I am getting 3 to 1 pot odds on the call. I have 6.83 to 1 odds on hitting one of my over cards on the turn. At this point it is mathematically wrong to make the call, but I feel folding in this situation is too tight. If I were to make the call and miss the turn, then I have almost the same odds to make my hand on the river. If you look at the odds to make the hand counting both the turn and the river you get 3.15 to 1 odds. What would you do in this situation to assure you are not playing a call preflop and then fold to a c-bet? Maybe float the flop and bet the turn if it is a blank? What should I do in situations like this?
if it was me, i would raise before the flop just to try and get some of those mid to low cards out of the way. although its a toss up either way.
 
S

SeriousBizzness

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Total posts
136
Chips
0
Well to avoid this situation just raise proflop with those cards. You block alot of big hands with your cards so You will get enough folds vs that type of villain. And If he just calls he is likely to check any flop oop which is good you can always have to option to see the turn when is checked to you.
i agree with you. even if your cards dont come you can still count youre outs and see if its worth staying
 
Top