10NL is filled with maniacs!

I've made repeated attempts to move up to 10NL on pokerstars, but always lose money and have to drop back 5NL, build it back up, try 10NL and lose money, drop down to 5NL and build it back up, ad infinitum...

One issue I find that there seem to be lots of player at 10NL at stars that aren't aware of any other button than the raise button, so I end up folding a lot since it's rare I'll have a hand I'll want to get it all in with which seems like the only way to see a showdown with these folks. This is confirmed by my graph for those stakes which has break-even showdown winnings and a tanking red line.

I have to admit I'm at a loss as to how to play against these people... Do I just tighten way up and only play hands I'm likely to want to get it in with? That seems really exploitable to me. If I'm only playing premium hands, it makes it really easy for them to fold any time I choose to play a hand.

What can I do against opponents that are way too aggressive?

6max or fullring?

Not that it matters much. The play at 10NL is generally pretty passive but I guess it could be significantly more aggressive than 5NL.

From my experience at 10NL most regs are straightforward enough that you can fold to most of their raises confidently. Maybe its just a small sample?

I know of stars they tend to squeeze a lot. I would not nit up against these "regs" because they will abuse you, so, as crazy as it sounds you should fight back, 4bet light.

Just play like you did at 5nl, its all in your head, games hardly change the worst thing you could do is adjust.

NL10 games are not aggressive, sorry.

baudib1 said:

NL10 games are not aggressive, sorry.

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This

Hmm... Here are just a couple examples of the type of thing I'm talking about, all of which happened yesterday(all different villians):

1:

I have AQ and raise from utg, bb calls.

flop Q93r

bb checks, I bet 2/3, bb raises. I call.

turn J

bb shoves, I call

bb turns over K9o

2:

I have QQ and raise from ep, mp shoves his whole stack in, I call

mp turns over T8s

3:

I have AA on the button. EP limps, mp iso raises, I 3-bet really big, both call.

flop 357r

checked to me, I bet 2/3, ep shoves, mp folds, I call

ep turns over 98o

Those are just examples from yesterday! The same sort of thing has been happening so frequently in 10nl, that I had to remark on it here. Now 5nl has the occasional maniac, too... but 10nl really seems to be full of people who will get it in with atc. The examples above are just the ones I have called because I had a good enough hand to feel I was beating the crazy bastards. Who knows what they had all the times I folded.

Maybe I'm just bitter because I keep losing. 1: 9 on the river, 3: 6 on the river, 2: I actually won!

Maybe small sample size, sure (around 14000 hands). And I have also took note of the fact that I tend to take my 10nl shots on the weekends, so maybe more drunk crazies about? but still there aren't that many drunk crazies at 5nl at the same times...

I have played a lot of hands at 10NL and imo it is the hardest of the micro limits (i have played up to 25NL FR) There are a lot of regulars who do not get their money in bad against you and play pretty standard.

If you are struggling with the aggression levels then i suggest waiting till you have the monsters and allowing people to do the betting for you, however from my experience at 10NL this is not likely to happen, alternatively when you have hands that sometimes cannot withstand 3 bets at 10NL you should be raising a lot more flops and turns to find out where you are in the end and hopefully taking the pot down there and then

lolololololol.

The examples above are just the ones I have called because I had a good enough hand to feel I was beating the crazy bastards. Who knows what they had all the times I folded.

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If people are shoving that wide that often, call more. How many hands did you play yesterday?

Akhanar said:

I've made repeated attempts to move up to 10NL on PokerStars, but always lose money and have to drop back 5NL, build it back up, try 10NL and lose money, drop down to 5NL and build it back up, ad infinitum...

One issue I find that there seem to be lots of player at 10NL at stars that aren't aware of any other button than the raise button, so I end up folding a lot since it's rare I'll have a hand I'll want to get it all in with which seems like the only way to see a showdown with these folks. This is confirmed by my graph for those stakes which has break-even showdown winnings and a tanking red line.

I have to admit I'm at a loss as to how to play against these people... Do I just tighten way up and only play hands I'm likely to want to get it in with? That seems really exploitable to me. If I'm only playing premium hands, it makes it really easy for them to fold any time I choose to play a hand.

What can I do against opponents that are way too aggressive?

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Personally - I have the same experience as you. And that is a fact.
Perhaps I am flagged as a real fish and they all are just having a feast on me... lol
My solution - terrible solution - I just gave up on cash games
Smaller stakes like .01/.02 just too boring. I do play at times .02/.05 but not too much. Staying with MTT.

Play TAG, just premium hands or from position, adjust based on stats. Set mine and look for value from pockets. Just play super standard and eventually you will find people to pay you.

Akhanar said:

1:

I have AQ and raise from utg, bb calls.

flop Q93r

bb checks, I bet 2/3, bb raises. I call.

turn J

bb shoves, I call

bb turns over K9o

2:

I have QQ and raise from ep, mp shoves his whole stack in, I call

mp turns over T8s

3:

I have AA on the button. EP limps, mp iso raises, I 3-bet really big, both call.

flop 357r

checked to me, I bet 2/3, ep shoves, mp folds, I call

ep turns over 98o

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Sorry, your problem with playing against the villains in these hand is...?

These aggro-tards are very easy and profitable to play against. 10nl isn't aggressive, the semi-decent regs are relatively passive. I think you have just come across a few drunk weekend maniacs. epsi:

Im also at a loss as to why the 3 examples are a problem, unless im missing something, these idiots paid you off and you won all 3 hands.

Isnt this EXACTLY what we want..

Sure, you will get bad beats when they occasionally hit lucky, but its a percentages game....

There's obviously something you arent telling us.

Show us the hands where you got busted before you moved back down

Actually, I lost two of those hands when they hit something on the river, but your point still stands. I guess what happened is that for a period, not only was I being forced to fold a lot, but also had the worst hand every single time when I called. I started to wonder if I was being outplayed somehow that I didn't understand. But now I'm starting to realize that I was just getting unlucky over and over again.

Definitely going to be calling these maniacs a lot more now that I have seen some of the hands they're playing.

Ducky7 said:

I have played a lot of hands at 10NL and imo it is the hardest of the micro limits

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Just made me spit my coffee everywhere lol

OP, its all in your head, combined with a small sample.

OP, find the maniacs. Get it in. Smile.

There are enough regs who dont shove ATC at 10nl. And when you find one who will, great. As MM said, the weekends bring them out, and God bless them. May they bring the whole neighborhood with them.

Having now made short work of 10nl and built my bankroll up enough to move to 16nl (woohoo!) I am finding the same thing is true at that level as well.

My new theory is that 5nl is filled with weak little set-mining super nits, and the other levels have a normal number of maniacs. I wonder why the maniacs skip 5nl...

Anyway, I'm having a blast actually getting paid off on my big hands, something that almost never happens at 5nl where I stuck around for far too long!

Akhanar said:

My new theory is that 5nl is filled with weak little set-mining super nits, and the other levels have a normal number of maniacs.

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I found 5nl on stars ridiculously nitty too, I hated it! 10nl and 16nl are much more fun.

While I don't play much ring on Stars, I'd guess my experience at similar levels elsewhere also applies. There are maniacs who love to (semi-) bluff (over-) shove, and there are players who like to over-shove their big made hands in the hope that you'll think they're either bluffing or trying to blow you out of the hand with a moderate holding. Few if any players do both, so it's not hard to adjust your calling ranges accordingly.