1/2 NL Strategy

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FoBreeze

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Curious as to what you guys think of the strategy of limping in or simply see as many cheap flops with marginal, medium grade hands and trying to make as many hands as possible on the flop.

The reason I think this would be a good strategy is because of so many calling stations in low stakes poker. Do you agree that seeing a lot of flops in NL is good and then folding if necessary, or is it better to wait and wait for the highest quality hands preflop, which could be a long long time?

Thanks a ton!
 
Aces2w1n

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Normally the bad thing about marginal hands ... a big chance to winning small pots and losing big pots.

What happens when we have 65s and we get our flush draw... u hit reverse implied odds... what if the board is A65.... Anyone with overpairs just needs the board to pair...

So examples with 65 but this could be hands like KT or KJ etc.... we end up in bad spots...

Also last thing if you find yourself limping in like everyone else and playing a bad game, it usually means you've been sitting down too long and need a break.
 
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HooDooKoo

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Curious as to what you guys think of the strategy of limping in or simply see as many cheap flops with marginal, medium grade hands and trying to make as many hands as possible on the flop.

The reason I think this would be a good strategy is because of so many calling stations in low stakes poker. Do you agree that seeing a lot of flops in NL is good and then folding if necessary, or is it better to wait and wait for the highest quality hands preflop, which could be a long long time?

Thanks a ton!


I'm assuming that you're talking about live poker. If so, this is a HORRIBLE strategy. Playing textbook TAG poker is far and away the most profitable type of poker at 1/2 live. Be selective preflop, use position to your advantage, and value bet big when you have a hand.

If you do those things, you'll crush 1/2 live.

Good luck.

-HooDooKoo
 
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If you take a look at Flopzilla and experiment around with seeing how often these weak, marginal hands hit flops, they flop big only <5% of the time.

Also, you lose a decent percentage of the time even when you do flop big, such as two pair. Someone can hit a better two pair, or you can get counterfeited. By the turn, two pair is usually a marginal hand. And you can still have the worse hand even on the flop.

You can flop combo draws, like a pair plus flush draw that you can gamble with. You can stay in the hand and smooth call to try and improve, or run a big bluff on the turn and river, like moving all in on the turn after the aggressor bets and other players have called.

The aggressor, let's say he's in early position, will often have to lay down the best hand, as he still has to worry about the rest of the players acting behind. It looks like you're slowplaying a big hand, and someone else could also have him beat. If your read is that no one has been slowplaying (you know Players A and B always raise themselves with hands like sets and so are drawing themselves, and Player C and D never hero call shoves) it'll fold back around to the late position players who will usually have the weakest hand and can't call.

And that's a rare spot and only when you're on the button or cutoff. Usually by the time action comes to you on the turn, someone will make their monster hands known - they want to shut out the draws. The rest of the time, you don't have enough information to try and judge whether you should make a move. Even when you flop decent equity, the action can be intense enough that you have to fold even with your combo draws or two pairs or open-ended straight draws.

The vast majority of the time you flop a bad gutshot, third pair with no kicker, etc. Not to mention when you have a dominated draw. A fraction of the time you hit big and win a big pot, but you're bleeding it away almost as fast, especially if there are players who are punishing the limpers with raises preflop.
 
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FoBreeze

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I'm assuming that you're talking about live poker. If so, this is a HORRIBLE strategy. Playing textbook TAG poker is far and away the most profitable type of poker at 1/2 live. Be selective preflop, use position to your advantage, and value bet big when you have a hand.

If you do those things, you'll crush 1/2 live.

Good luck.

-HooDooKoo

Thanks for the information! Ok, so what would be the worst hand you would play in early position vs late?
 
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HooDooKoo

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You can find a starting hand chart online for any table size. Just google it.

-HooDooKoo
 
MediaBLITZ

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From my archives

No-Limit Texas Holdem with blinds $1/$2: which strategy you should use?
 by Ronald Norris

No-Limit Texas Holdem with blinds $1/$2 is the most popular poker game at casinos.
For sure there will be many unskillful players who are ready to give you their money. You just need to know how to play properly No-Limit Texas Holdem with blinds $1/$2. Believe me, it is not so difficult to start winning money. Just spend more time to read useful articles and apply your knowledge to the practice.

The Game
As I said this type of poker is the most popular. Minimal buy-in is $40 and maximal buy-in is $200. $1/$2 blinds are the smallest in Texas Holdem poker you can play at casinos. Therefore it is a low risk affordable game.

Your typical opponent
During playing No-Limit Texas Holdem you will meet different opponents: 60-years old accurate players, beginners, maniacs, aggressive rivals and youngsters with sunglasses thinking that they are cool and look very professional. Some of your opponents will be very skilful, but most will be just beginners without proper Texas Holdem poker skills. They will depend only on their own cards without assessing the concrete situation. Such simple thinking guarantees you winnings.
They won’t notice that you fold dozens of hands and now you place a big bet. They can think this way “I have got pocket jacks, so, I can re-raise any bet!”. Such Texas Holdem players are your main victim. And they are the source of your profits. They have got two weaknesses. First if that they call too often before the flop. And the second is that they do not want to fold and you can bring them to the very end of a hand. Poker pros call such opponents fishes.
Beginners complain very often that it is impossible to win much playing against fishes because they only call and do not raise as often as aggressive players. But this statement doesn’t make a sense! It is totally wrong. Players who call often are ATM machines of poker! They are willing to give their money to anybody who is patient enough. Patience is the key to success. Never forget this rule!

Your ideal strategy for No-Limit Texas Holdem with $1/$2 blinds
Play tight, wait for the best pocket pair or very strong cards and place a bet! So, as you can see I do not advice you anything supernatural. It is just an ABC’s of poker! Wait for best cards and play, do not loose concentration and profits will come to you. Weak players won’t surprise you with their decisions. They call in most cases . Therefore just let them do their job. Do not bluff too often. As I said your opponents tend to call therefore bluff is not an effective tool. You should better focus on using value bets when you have good pocket cards.
When you play tight before the flop it helps you to make decisions after the flop. Play good cards before the flop and you will have the same strong cards after the flop and it will be extremely simple to finish the hand with positive results. That ‘ s all ! Avoid playing weak cards. You will have to face difficult moments after the flop if you have started with weak cards. And it will affect your confidence. Once again, just be patient!
Your goal is to have best pair with a strong kicker or good drawing hand at the flop. You should not repeat actions of your opponents. Follow tight Texas Holdem poker style and focus on playing hands. It is better not to play so often but to win every time you play. So, quality is more important than quantity.

No-Limit Texas Holdem with blinds $1/$2: a few words about the cards you should have to win

Last time I told you about No-Limit Texas Holdem with blinds $1/$2. You might remember that this type of poker is the most popular one. You can find it almost in all casinos. Therefore it is very useful to learn how to play No-Limit
Texas Holdem with blinds $1/$2 effectively.
Previously I gave you some information about the game and described the most suitable strategy. So, now we will continue our conversation about No-Limit Texas Holdem. I will tell you what cards you need to have to play with blinds $1/$2

Strong pocket pairs (AA – TT)
These hands are ready to use! One strong hand is enough to win in most cases. Therefore if you decide to play this hand you should start to raise. But be careful if somebody raised before you. Your opponent might have better cards than you. At the same time if you hold pocket aces, kings, queens of jacks you should re-raise your opponents. At least before the flop. Of course, pocket aces do not guarantee you win. Therefore always analyze possible combinations of your opponents.
And if the flop brings you third card and you have three of a kind you should definitely place bets. Your typical opponent will call your bet and his mistakes will allow you to win money.

Good cards with potential value (A-K – A-J, K-Q)
Good cards with a potential value can easily transform into a top pair with a strong kicker. And when you play against a typical opponent, strong kicker can make a difference.
For example, if you have got KQ and the flop brings you King you can start to raise all the time. Let’s say, if your opponent has got K9 he will call your bets. So, you won’t have any difficult decisions, just play your game and wait until the kicker earns you money.
Experts advice to raise before the flop if you have good cards with potential value. But this statement can be applied only to situations when nobody raised before you. And of course you have better chances to outclass just one opponent than several of them. Keep in mind this simple mathematics.

Speculative hands
Speculative hands do not bring win without help from the flop, turn or river. It is very rare that high card ace or king can win a hand. But at the same time if the luck plays on your side and you receive help from the flop, turn or river you can win a good pot. And of course, ideally speculative hands transform into three of a kind, straight, full-house or flush. If you are lucky enough to build such combination you are ready to bet all your money. And you do not really have to care about the actions of your opponent.
Such cards are called speculative because they need to be strengthened. These cards separately do not have a value. Ideally you want to see the flop without paying for it when you have speculative hands. Speculative hands can bring you positive results if you are the last person to play at the table. Therefore if there are many opponents after you try to avoid adding much money to the pot.
 
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1blanqueanu1

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I think investing to "tie one hand" is loser, I think poker should never play to "flirt" with exceptions such as paying with a multi position player can or paying with implied odds good looking set, etc
 
Luan

Luan

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I would like to know something about cash game
 
EchoEllis

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Never open limp, anyone will tell you that, even with 5 limpers with pockets 2s ill raise just 3xbbs to build a pot, if i miss my set im never cbetting, you may get some folds and your in position and have the pre flop betting lead, any trouble hands i sometimes limp for implied odds only but i need to hit the flop hard to continue for much, any premium hands you iso raise 3
bbs +1bb for each limper
 
TheGodson

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Usually it is better to raise than to limp. This is what I and others have found through experience.

At tables where the players are tight, limping seems unnecessary since opening for a raise will get the blinds to fold enough to where it is more profitable than limping.

At looser tables I think limping can actually be a good thing. At a loose passive table I think it is a fairly good strategy to hop in with speculative holdings such as 66-22 and maybe some lower suited connectors.

At very loose-passive tables I think including marginal hands that are almost strong enough to raise into the mix, are good too. This might include limping with ATo UTG or possibly A9o. Most often these hands will be beat which makes them bad to raise, but you can expect a lot of people behind you to limp in as well. You may get someone with A4o in the hand who otherwise would have folded.

At loose-aggressive tables I think limping is usually a mistake unless it is a pocket pair like 66-22. Even then it might be better to fold if you are in an early position. Also it depends on the type of aggressive the table is. Some tables are very aggressive for bringing the pot up a couple of bets, but don't 3-bet often. These are the tables you want to limp 66-22 at. Sometimes limping in with KK or AA from an early position is a good way to trap a lot of people. After getting raised you 3-bet it and some people just can't get away from their hands.

If you ever play against an experienced player who doesn't know that you are experienced. You can limp re-raise bluff them early on. If they are good they will assume you have a KK+ hand, because that is what the average opponent has, who does this. Following the population trend average, they will often fold.

When everyone has folded to you in the SB I believe it is a good strategy to limp with a very wide range of hands. Even garbage like T3o can be limped here and expect profit, given that you use aggression after the flop.
 
onecardsteve

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Playing 1/2NLHE

I have watched videos and listen to pod casts, the I guess rule of thumb is to make the same raise amount pre-flop

When I have played I have not followed this , with the Holidays and last weekends storm , I have not been to Foxwoods in 3 weeks, I am heading there Saturday , I have been planning my strategy in my head for the 3 weeks.

I want to see that if I raise with say $15 with a premium hand and take down the pot, I am hoping the same will happen with a middle pair.
 
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Limping in the best way to create big pots says Playful
 
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TCashMoney19

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Curious as to what you guys think of the strategy of limping in or simply see as many cheap flops with marginal, medium grade hands and trying to make as many hands as possible on the flop.

The reason I think this would be a good strategy is because of so many calling stations in low stakes poker. Do you agree that seeing a lot of flops in NL is good and then folding if necessary, or is it better to wait and wait for the highest quality hands preflop, which could be a long long time?

Thanks a ton!

This is a question I get a lot from my friends who are just starting, who think it's better to just see a flop cheaply with any two cards has got to be a winning strategy. However, if you really look at the math behind it, you're leaking money! Reason being, when you limp there are more hands that are likely to either:

1) limp behind. Again, this is a math thing. Even pocket AAs doesn't win a lot of the time if the flop goes 4-5 ways, so think about how terribly a hand like 56s or some marginal hand like that is going to do. Therefore, I'd never ever employ the strategy of open limping in a cash game. The only time I ever limp in a cash game is if it folds around to me in the SB and I have a good/competent player in the Big Blind who will reraise SB opens wide and will float alot on a ton of flops. This leaves me a ton of options, like limp reraising with strong/bluff hands and also limp calling a lot of my range without building too big of a pot. I can also limp/stab a lot of flops and take a lot of them down, and I find this works for me against good players in the big blind. However, if the opponent is weak or doesn't defend their big blind wide enough versus SB opens, I generally open to 3.5-4x and either take down the blinds or outplay them post. This is the only time I ever employ open limping in a cash game, and even still I rarely do it because there aren't a ton of really great players in live games at 200NL.

2) if you limp, you're open to being isolated. This is another leak in a lot of players game, where they will limp/call to see the flop as cheaply as possible and then they'll be out of position against an aggressive player with a marginal hand that doesn't flop well a vast majority of the time. The limper is at a range disadvantage and can't really play back unless you have a dead read on their opponent or smash the flop...and both don't happen nearly enough for this to be a profitable play. You'll be lost the entire hand, not knowing where your hand stands unless you smash the flop.

For these reasons, and many more, open limping should never be a strategy you consistently use at the table. It's unprofitable and generally is indicative of weak play, and I know a lot of my bottom line comes from isolating limpers who play fit or fold post flop. So generally, not a good strategy.

The only time I'd say limping is fine in a live 200NL game is when there are like 4-5 limpers and you're in position on the button with a hand that plays well multi-way post flop (i.e. decent suited connectors (67s-JTs), small pocket pairs (22-66), etc). Hands like that. You could try and isolate some of the limpers, but hands like this work well multi-way when there are more sources of implied odds. Sure there is the occasional reverse implied odds like someone mentioned earlier, where you could flop a small flush .vs. a higher flush, but this doesn't happen nearly enough to the point that I'd say it's unprofitable to just call these hands in position. But again, these instances are very few and far in between, and raising to a standard size pre flop with a good hand is going to help your bottom line immensely in the long run. Good luck out there on the tables, sorry if this is too long! haha
 
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stokedog4

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"Never go broke in a limped pot" Great advice and I've seen it happen to many players playing 1/2 Live.

If I'm in late position and there are 4 or 5 limpers I will raise with a decent range but I"ll also just call with small pocket pairs, sometimes even medium pocket pairs. suited connectors or 1 gappers. Also when ppl play like this and it's multi way I'll even play in position with trash like K2dd+ and hope to flop big... people can't lay down their limped AJ with flop is AdTd4d...

If the table you are playing is so passive and ppl continue to do this, you need to punish them by raising a decent part of your range...

good luck
 
Dorugremon

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Curious as to what you guys think of the strategy of limping in or simply see as many cheap flops with marginal, medium grade hands and trying to make as many hands as possible on the flop.

The reason I think this would be a good strategy is because of so many calling stations in low stakes poker. Do you agree that seeing a lot of flops in NL is good and then folding if necessary, or is it better to wait and wait for the highest quality hands preflop, which could be a long long time?

Thanks a ton!

Fixed limit or no limit? I employ this strategy a lot at fixed limit, and especially at tight-weak tables. If they're gonna call whether you raise or limp, then limping is cheaper. You save a bet when you miss.

As a no limit strategy, it's no good. You're giving up your implied fold equity. If you have stationey players, better to take 'em to value town with your superior holdings. You may have to wait a long time for quality hands, but you save a helluvalot more by folding the junk than by calling with marginal hands that miss the flop. Flopping flushes, straights, or sets are long shot possibilities. Even flopping Bottom Two with something like (76-suited) is a slightly better than 1 in 50 chance. If you're going to speculate, best to do it with position and against opponents who're likely to pay you off if you get lucky with the draw.

Also, "marginal, medium grade hand" means RIO hand. You limp with (KT-off) flop a king, and Mr Station shows you a (KQ) -- you lose.
 
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ranma187

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One thing I notice. is that when you are brand new to a table of strangers. everyone assumes you suck and will try to bully you right off the bat so make the most if you get a good hand right away or flop really strong right away. Your value bets should be big and ridiculous, most people will call because they assume you suck.
 
onecardsteve

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I play at Foxwoods and play 1/2 NL, I do try to limp in if it is a limp pre-flop just like yourself to see flops cheap. It sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't work. If I have connected cards or up to a 2-3 gapper I do want to see the flop cheaply. I have watched at times too many limpers in a pot too many times hands can get cracked or counterfeited. Every hand is situational.
 
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If the table is super-tight and people are readily folding to pre-flop action, I might limp with AK or similar just to try and keep people in the hand.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, if the table is full of aggressors & I know with 99% certainty I will be facing a raise downstream, I might limp EP so I can re-raise preflop.

As to the OP's question; Seeing lots of flops is horrible. You get wrapped up in false potential way too often. That's the short version of what others have already said.
 
Che

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Only play hands that flop big worth continuing with.(22+, A2s+, AQ+) That's 11.5% or one hand per orbit. Make sure in position you want to play in such a way as to have the table give you a free card on the flop if you need one. Like having a "flop", so to speak, LOL...lol.., of 4 cards instead of 3. You will have a huge advantage against that table.


flopping big 45% and turning big 63% by the river you are 72% big


TPTK, Over-pair, 2 pair, Set, Str8, Flush, FH, Quads, Str8Flush,



Big/Huge draws on the flop over 50%

FD+OEnd, FD+GS, FD+2GapStr8, FD+2Overs, OESFDraw, P+FD, P+OEnd, P+GS, P+OESFDraw, P+GSStr8+1Over+BackDoor
 
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Response

So, first off, I'm still trying to beat 1/2 tables. That said, this won't work. Play 15% of hands, more in late position less in early, but 15 average. That's the best strategy for you.
 
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Normally the bad thing about marginal hands ... a big chance to winning small pots and losing big pots.

What happens when we have 65s and we get our flush draw... u hit reverse implied odds... what if the board is A65.... Anyone with overpairs just needs the board to pair...

So examples with 65 but this could be hands like KT or KJ etc.... we end up in bad spots...

Also last thing if you find yourself limping in like everyone else and playing a bad game, it usually means you've been sitting down too long and need a break.

this exactly happened to some guy I was against, I had ak and flop came A98 where he had the 98 so I jammed all in, board paired by the river giving me the win xD
 
Dorugremon

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this exactly happened to some guy I was against, I had ak and flop came A98 where he had the 98 so I jammed all in, board paired by the river giving me the win xD
What stack sizes? If the vill is short, then this is a decent play. You either double him up, or make him get up to free his spot for a more well heeled fish, or make him reload. If he wins, he doesn't hurt your stack too much.

When stacks are deep, then jamming it with a TPTK is a hideous play. If I have (A,K) on that board, then it's time to play it cautiously. (A,9,8) presents the possible threats of three, two-pair hands, as (A,9-s) and (A,8-s) are preflop calling hands, as is (9,8). Pocket eights and nines are also viable pre-flop calls. Definitely not looking to play for stacks here. Depending on the vill, I'm looking to play this pot small. If the vill won't co-operate and wants to play for stacks, I can find that fold button pretty easily.

Overplaying TPTK and overpairs is a big mistake that I see nearly every session. You don't want to be playing for stacks unless you know your opponent well enough to know he's capable of making a big bluff on that kind of a board.

(A,K) on a (A,9,8) board is a go hand in fixed limit. If you run into your opponent's (9,8) oh well. All it cost you was a few bets. In no-limit, it can cost you a stack, either you lose your buy in one hand, or you lose the stack you spent the past two hours building in a few minutes. In no-limit, stack protection takes precedence over hand protection.
 
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I think it's really worth to play very tight and obviusly, that means when you have a premium hand, such as Kings or Aces, just don't be afraid of making a 4x raise or even more, or reraising 3 times what has been raised. At the same time, if we have a marginal hand in a got spot that needs to improve nad haven't, we also have to let some hands go away without fear. There's no secret, just play the basic poker. Some more examples:
-Limping in early position with small pocket pairs
-Wider range of hands in the button or cut off
-fold almost all hands in the small blind, unless it's like JTs+ and there weren't no raises behind you
-c-bet often, or c-bet light
-only apply he 3-bet or 4-bet if you really have a strong hand
Well, there are a lot more things i don't remember now but that it's part of the game. The tip is, just be obvious, don't be afraid to bet hard and extract value from a strong hand, and just fold bad hands
 
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