1/2 Live Where did I go wrong???

Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

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Was playing 1/2 live at Morongo on a full table. My stack is 170 i bought in for 100. Player sitting to the left of me has 200 behind. Here is the hand:

Hero: Small Blind w/ AJ os
Villain: Big Blind w/ Q/10 suited clubs (Young kid maybe 18 you can tell he knows nothing about poker the type who will chase a gut-shot all the way down to river no matter the price)


Pre-Flop: 5 players limp for 2$ to me in the Small Blind, I raise it to 20$ to take down the pot right there. Big Blind calls the 20 with Q10 clubs, all other players fold and pot is heads-up.


Flop: 8 clubs, J spades, Q hearts
Hero: Bets 20 into 46$
Villain: Calls 20 and says "I call" kind of in an unsure voice
Turn: J clubs
Hero: Bets 40 into 86$
Villain: Tanks for a bit and finally calls (at this point I know he is on a draw)
River: 9 clubs
Hero: I see this card and I seriously am so ****ing pissed at this point.......I couldn't even believe it......I announce All-In for 90$
Villain: calls 90


Showdown: Hero: 3 jacks Ace kicker , Villain: Q high flush


So where do you guys think I went wrong???? I honestly think I screwed up on the turn and shouldn't have gone for value. That was an awful choice and such a dicey board. I wanted value and only bet 40 instead of saying All-In?


Suggestions?
 
Jeshua Kane

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well if your first instinct was right and he would call down any draw for any price your only move would have been fold preflop but ya you should have shoved on the turn and hope he folds but he probably wouldnt have
 
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JNH387

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Hi there! Many of these 1-2 NL live games have crazy people in them. You're right about sizing up your opponent the way you did. You were right too!!! So you have to take that into consideration when playing this type of player. Just like if you were playing for play money on pokerstars, the people are crazy, calling with anything...never folding two pair for their lives. You knew this kid was on a draw...you knew he didn't know what he was doing andddd you knew he hit his flush on the river...nothing you can do about it. Only thing left would be to check the river and save $90....because just like everything else....you were right...you were beat. Trust yourself, don't let anger influence your decisions. That's one of the big differences between us amateurs and professionals. Be happy at the end of the day you read every thing correctly...next time just act on it. Just my 2 cents.
 
Jillychemung

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I wanted value and only bet 40 instead of saying All-In?

Why did you believe that a shove by you wouldn't be for value?


Why did you believe villain was unsure about calling instead of unsure about raising?


You've played enough live so answer me this, how many players have you run across that would fold a TP+FD+SD hand here on the turn even having to call off $130 into a >$200 pot?


Next time please don't post the villains hand as it biases the analysis.
 
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Ofarah

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The flop looks terrifying to me. If he doesn't fold to a solid cbet on the flop then maybe next time save your $$ on the turn. If he's a rookie like you said he would've folded on the flop if he didn't have anything (more than likely).
 
Aaron Soto

Aaron Soto

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I have 70% equity on the turn, I shove it is more then likely he folds and I win what's in the pot 86$. I had him on something like AQ or KQ or something along those lines at first. When he called PF. I think a 40 into 86 is a "value bet" and nothing less.

Why did i believe villain was unsure about calling instead of raising? Easy: because I'm pro at reading the other players, body language, voice, bets, etc.


How many players would fold Top-Pair /w flush draw inside straight draw? Probably not many unless he has me on Aces or Kings. Regardless he still does not have correct odds to call. That is basically what it comes down to right?
 
Jillychemung

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River: 9 clubs
Hero: I see this card and I seriously am so ****ing pissed at this point.......I couldn't even believe it......I announce All-In for 90$

Regardless he still does not have correct odds to call. That is basically what it comes down to right?

Yes, but who makes the bigger mistake here, you or villain?


That flop smashes villains floating range, suited broadways, middle PP, maybe T9s, 98s Now if villain has a Qx hand (AQ, KQ, QJ, QT) what runouts help you? IMHO, that flop is a perfect example of a wet flop that hits villain harder than you that you don't want to c-bet on.


IMHO I also think some entitlement tilt and ego tilt came into play on this hand. I'll lay odds that you had some tilt self-talk going on in your head while this hand played out.


"Why is this fish floating me when I have made a big raise? He should either 3-bet me or fold!!"


"Damn that's an ugly flop but fish can't possibly be so lucky to have hit the Q."


"Damn fish just floating me again. I know I'm better than him, I'll yank this pot away from him on the turn or river!!!"


"Bingo, hit my Jack but damn that now puts out a flush draw. No way fish has clubs here."


"F**K-It , I'm all-in."
 
Ahoy

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My thoughts (may be absolutely wrong):

1. I wouldnt C-bet that board, as C-bet here makes no sense, because it hits Villain range much harder than yours. Very wet board.

2. You were lucky to improve on turn

3. Very bad all in. You say you knew he was on a draw. Why go all in when all the possible draws hit?
 
Slider23

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The only mistake that you made was the all bet on the river. Your all in river bet looks like a tilt move. Check the river, then, you will have a decision to call villian's bet or fold.
 
caligula

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Your mistake was going all in on the river on a card that completed all the draws when you previously thought your opponent was on a draw. Going for value on the turn was completely fine, as you were assuredly holding the best hand at the moment.


Why did i believe villain was unsure about calling instead of raising? Easy: because I'm pro at reading the other players, body language, voice, bets, etc.


Hero: Small Blind w/ AJ os
Villain: Big Blind w/ Q/10 suited clubs (Young kid maybe 18 you can tell he knows nothing about poker the type who will chase a gut-shot all the way down to river no matter the price)

You need to step down from your high horse and exercise some humility. I see you all the time in the Live at The Bike chat, berating other's opinions/skills and pumping yourself up as some knowledgeable expert. Maybe you forgot that at this point you're just a Morongo reg who hasn't moved up out of 1/2. If your reading abilities are as good as you say they are, why did you not trust them in this hand? Why did you betray your instincts and give your opponent a $90 gift on the river? What worse hands were going to feasibly call your jam on a paired board with 4 to a straight and 3 to a flush?
 
Alucard

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You are giving easy odds for him to float turn betting under half pot. V played it nice post flop while you didn't
 
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Haven’t been online in a while but this takes me back for a couple reasons

1) Aaron Soto
2) it’s a typical Aaron soto hand history
3) decent advice
4) stubborn refusal5)someone has the screen name of Caligula and it was only registered in November 2017


Love it
 
vapandrei

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Not talking from any book here, but I think you went wrong pushing allin when you admittedly knew with some degree of certainty that he was on a draw and had hit the flush.

By the river point, he was holding a flush, a decently high one mind you and took his (good) chance at the pot by calling.

You could've tried pushing him off the pot on the flop or on the turn. To me you played it like you had nuts until the river card, then just tried to push me off the pot with whatever chips you had left, not many.

Again, that's just me and I've been known to be wrong from time to time.

Summary: You didn't try to push him off the pot when you were holding nuts. In the end there were too few chips at the table to scare anyone holding a flush.

PS: He did gamble a bit on the FD, but it's inevitable to bump into this scenario from time to time.
 
Omahahahaha

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pre : complete is better.

over all you get better answers if you don't post the results
 
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Cstarker27

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Was playing 1/2 live at Morongo on a full table. My stack is 170 i bought in for 100. Player sitting to the left of me has 200 behind. Here is the hand:

Hero: Small Blind w/ AJ os
Villain: Big Blind w/ Q/10 suited clubs (Young kid maybe 18 you can tell he knows nothing about poker the type who will chase a gut-shot all the way down to river no matter the price)


Pre-Flop: 5 players limp for 2$ to me in the Small Blind, I raise it to 20$ to take down the pot right there. Big Blind calls the 20 with Q10 clubs, all other players fold and pot is heads-up.


Flop: 8 clubs, J spades, Q hearts
Hero: Bets 20 into 46$
Villain: Calls 20 and says "I call" kind of in an unsure voice
Turn: J clubs
Hero: Bets 40 into 86$
Villain: Tanks for a bit and finally calls (at this point I know he is on a draw)
River: 9 clubs
Hero: I see this card and I seriously am so ****ing pissed at this point.......I couldn't even believe it......I announce All-In for 90$
Villain: calls 90


Showdown: Hero: 3 jacks Ace kicker , Villain: Q high flush


So where do you guys think I went wrong???? I honestly think I screwed up on the turn and shouldn't have gone for value. That was an awful choice and such a dicey board. I wanted value and only bet 40 instead of saying All-In?


Suggestions?



IMO there is not much you could do? You bet the flop with second pair, but to him it looks like your rep top pair. So he can’t go anywhere on the flop as he has top pair as well. Now when the turn club hits the board he’s pretty priced in with whatever you bet.... Name one time you folded a 1/2 pot turn bet with top pair & flush draw. Your pot odds are to great. Your biggest mistake was “jamming” when you know you were beat and tilting. So you just gave him free money.
 
godblessiraq

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So villain hit a Q high straight flush? You should have potted the flop. Only chance he might go away. Villain not going anywhere after turning a straight flush draw to the Q, especially if there is a high hand promotion in that poker room. Thinking about it again, villain is going nowhere after the flop with top pair and drawing to the nuts. What more is he looking for in a flop?
 
godblessiraq

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Villain: Big Blind w/ Q/10 suited clubs (Young kid maybe 18 you can tell he knows nothing about poker the type who will chase a gut-shot all the way down to river no matter the price)


?????
So you can tell villain knows nothing about poker, yet you didn't realize what hand actually beat you? Maybe less time reading body language and more time reading the board is a good place to start to help improve your game. And betting half pot size bets are not getting many people to muck that hand after flop or turn.
 
Aaron Soto

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Guys, I obviously got lucky on the turn. I just need one answer here.

Question: Should I have jammed All-In on the turn and shut down the hand right there. He had a good possibility of out-drawing me for certain. 30% Equity along those lines.


I obviously played the hand on full blow tilt on the river. i admitted to that. I just felt I played the turn horribly. I have learned on 1/2 and 1/3 you either shut the hand down on the turn if you have a good read on heavy texture boards or check. Just my opinion.

I know the C-bet on the flop was very risky but I figured he may very well fold to a 20$ bet. On the turn I hit very big and felt very confident that I was ahead.
 
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40 into 86 gives villain 31.7% equity to call. That's an alright bet. 50-60 would've been a better size imo if you can put villain on a jack, q, or flush draw.

The question is why did you jam on the river. Would you jam if a Q showed up?


Should've checked it back and gained more information before deciding to call or fold.
 
Aaron Soto

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You can only dream of being as good as I am on the felt buddy. Your calling me a 1/2 reg at Morongo (which I am) but I have put up solid #s at 1/3. Also, I'm done playing 1/2 since it truly is not profitable at Morongo. Sorry man, I won't bullshit, many of the players on LATB are completely donkey fish trash. Maybe there are a few superstars on there who obviously are the ones who win. (Adelstein, Fee, Polk, Berkey, Helmuth, Matusow, Torelli,) Basically real High Stakes Grinders... Here are my #'s on 1/3 for just a month, I didn't bother saving the other months which were also winning months. Your graph?.
 

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Aaron Soto

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I've been grinding 1/2 to no avail. It simply is not profitable. Month after break even month, Maybe down about 1,000$ over 900 hours and 9 months. 1/2 isn't profitable at Morongo is All-I-Know...
 

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Aaron Soto

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Massive tilt, frustration, anger from breaking even for months on end on the 1/2 table......you wouldn't understand it.
 
caligula

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You can only dream of being as good as I am on the felt buddy. Your calling me a 1/2 reg at Morongo (which I am) hahahaha but I have put up solid #s at 1/3.

If you lost 2 buy-ins in the game I play your dreams of being a professional poker player would be crushed, you would cry, and you'd have to spend months working at the Morongo Outlets just to recover. I've already vastly surpassed "being as good as you are on the felt", and it's remarks like that which I was referring to in my original comment, that you sit in the LATB chat talking down to others like you're some kind of poker god. I played 1/2 and 1/3 years ago, now I play 5/10 pretty regularly where the buy in is $500-1500. You're wayyy in my rear view man.

What's funny is that this post is titled "Where did I go wrong", but most of your responses to the people telling you what you did wrong are counters, asserting it was your opponent who made the mistakes and got lucky. You're a narcissistic bum who refuses to take criticism, who thinks he's winning an argument by bragging about small wins at small stakes but in reality you're just embarrassing yourself. Go sit in the corner and take a timeout to reflect on your shameful actions.
 
C

Cstarker27

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You can only dream of being as good as I am on the felt buddy. Your calling me a 1/2 reg at Morongo (which I am) but I have put up solid #s at 1/3. Also, I'm done playing 1/2 since it truly is not profitable at Morongo. Sorry man, I won't bullshit, many of the players on LATB are completely donkey fish trash. Maybe there are a few superstars on there who obviously are the ones who win. (Adelstein, Fee, Polk, Berkey, Helmuth, Matusow, Torelli,) Basically real High Stakes Grinders... Here are my #'s on 1/3 for just a month, I didn't bother saving the other months which were also winning months. Your graph?.



Bro,
#1. go ahead and spend the $10-12 to buy a poker App that will do so much more for your game than writing it on paper. I use poker Analytics. Gives you a lot of good info.

#2 IMHO jamming in this spot on the turn at a $1/2 or $1/3 games, more times than not is going to end in the same result with a call. You have to remember that most of these players are rec players and are there for the gamble. They don’t pay attention to their equity, pot odds, implied odds, or anything else that most player that take the game seriously pay attention too. Which is good and bad. In my experience winning at $1/2 & 1/3 (when I used to play those games)are virtually impossible to beat especially when you add in the “rake”. So the fact your able to post some wins is a good thing. But when fish make fishy plays, and get paid off, how upset can you really be? It’s like being mad at your dog for being a dog and not a wolf. Moral of the story: you play with the fish your eventually gonna get caught. I suggest every once in a while you sit in a $2/5 game and eventually a $5/10 game. You will see how the game is not the same game at $5/10 as $1/2.
 
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