$1/$2 LIVE: Non-Premium Pairs

Playing non-premium pairs has always been a bit of a weakness of mine. I understand the concept of set-mining, but my skill set becomes kind of fuzzy when it goes beyond that. For instance, I always wondered why it was recommended to raise a hand like 8x8x in late position in a loose game like $1/$2 NL live. You're almost surely getting multiple callers, and any overcard can shut you down, especially if there is action.

But last night I read an article about playing small-medium pairs in a loose-passive game like $1/$2 live. I just wanted to confirm or define a bit better what I took away from the article:

- As the number of opponents and their stack sizes decrease, it is more profitable to limp in with pairs for set-mining
- As the number of opponents and their stack sizes increase, it becomes more profitable to raise with pairs

I believe the basic concept was that if you are in a 5-way hand with multiple deep stacks, raising preflop with a pair to build the pot is preferred. This decreases the number of pot-sized bets each player in the hand has in front of him and makes it more likely he will stack off after being priced in to a large pot.

Any thoughts on this? Or any other tips on how to play non-premium pairs?

I dont plau cash games but I generally call with small pp's and if I dont flop the set I fold but when I do im sure to get paid off most of the time but with the play your describing id definitly get paid off also would only limp in in the later positions

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well it is everything about call20. It has been studied, and it is recomended that you shouldn't put preflop more than 1/20 of your stack if you are going to play setmining, that's why sometimes it is better to limp in late positions. But if you still have doubts about playing this hand, don't play them, why would you get into trouble, if you know you will get into trouble?

I guess what the book says makes sense somewhat.

Less people at a table = players playing looser, hit two pair with rags when you hit a set, you're gonna win a lot
Smaller stacks = players being pot committed when they hit anything, so they're gonna go all in more often with weaker hands than they normally would.

completely disagree with what it says, you raise 88 because its profitable, we get the blinds when everyone folds, people call with worse hands and people wont play back at us often. postflop you dont only need an overpair to play

I'd steer away from right and wrong way to play pocket 8's from a certain
spot... or any hand this is where alot of us lose our edge over the best players who are always crushing games

whats important is to focus more on hand ranges what would they play and from what position, and like by all means open under the gun but 1/2 live probwont get as much respect as online because too many fish at a casino.
but this is subject to table

genurally you dont wanna call 3 people for an over price with pocket 8's but always have the intention to play them for cheap.

in addition if your in late position and you think a players opening range is loose/tight,
then you can flat the tight, 3-bet the looser ranger, Flop comes low, firstly v 1 opponent your going to have the best hand their 80-90% of the time exluding all his overpairs, and board texture,

also you want to know if this guy is cautious, like can you rep KA succesfully or a draw successfully,

or is it best to play the board correct, like bet the flop with the probable best hand, on say 4-7-9 rainbow board, evaluate the turn, if he's an open earlyraiser you know hes tight, he's probably Ace broadway, suited KQ-KJ - premium pairs only come round so often'
you can really pile on the pressure with pocket 8's on the turn

so theirs alot to think about
*can I rep hands against this guy
*is he likely to c-bet the flop
*is he bad enough to play garbage from early position etc
*what have I seen exposed so far - any strength indicators when hes been strong or did he trap

raising when entering the pot is almost always going to be best.

and the two points made about change in stack sizes is obv true.

I do agree with limping when stacks are shallow, but in a 5 way pot i dont see a great reason to raise and build a pot. You're better set mining and you can build a pot after the flop in a live game.

There are very few instances where you shouldn't bet or raise when you know you have the best hand.

In this situation preflop, 88 is most certainly the best hand. Saying there is always overcards, or nobody folds is being results oriented.

88 or lower is a limp for me in cash games and try to hook a set. If I miss on the flop I check it from early position to try and see if I can get the turn card for free or to at least find out how many might call a small bet before I have to act again. If enough people are in and the action stops with my call I'll stay in for cheap to see the turn if I am feeling lucky otherwise I usually just toss the lower pairs away after the flop misses. If you raise preflop with low pairs you are going to end up having to continuation bet on the following streets no matter what if you want to represent more than a low pair with over cards on the board. YMMV of course lol.

In the charity games I play at people tend to raise/call fairly wide preflop at $15 bucks a raise. With deep stacks set mining shows a nice profit but with people buying in for about $100-$300 (max) with less than 88 makes set mining dependent on the effective stack sizes.