Sharkscope and Ultimate Bet

D

Durwood

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Total posts
14
Chips
0
I got a sharkscope account and played some SNGs on Ultimate Bet. Before each SNG started I looked up all of my opponents on Sharkscope--and a pattern emerged.

There were a few fish who got eliminated quickly. About 95% of the players who played solidly also got eliminated before making any money. But 100% of the profitable players played like total idiots, and the site rewarded them for it.

Example: Solid player who is unprofitable six-raises with AK suited. Profitable fish calls with A5 offsuit. Flop comes AJ7 rainbow. Solid player repeats his bet. Profitable fish calls. Now profitable fish is all in, and of course the turn is a 5. The river is, IIRC, a 2.

Over the course of only a few days I saw that that kind of occurrence was the rule rather than the exception. Suckouts constituted about 85% of the wins in the tourneys I played.

I don't want to be subjected to abuse, so I'm not going to allege that Ultimate Bet is crooked. But the software is DEFINITELY skewed toward bad beats and rewarding bad play. Anyone who wants to do some sharkscoping and observing of their own to gather data is welcome to.

Oh, and one other tidbit: I tried to withdraw my remaining $35 but the minimum withdrawal on Ultimate Bet is $100, even though the minimum deposit is $10. If that doesn't stink to high heaven I don't know what does.

Someone said earlier that Ultimate Bet is "headed for the bone pile." I certainly hope everyone involved with that site gets to meet the guys with tails and pitchforks after death.

Woody
 
C

cheddachris

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Total posts
107
Chips
0
hahaha i think the a-5 was me >_< i beat AK with that hand yesterday in a game, was a last chance desperation act of trying to bluff the pot but won with it anyways.... however i dont think that your percentages are accurate, those bad beats will always happen, online and live, but that DEFINITELY doesnt mean that the idiots win more online the pro players are makin theirs just fine on that site
 
dmorris68

dmorris68

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
May 27, 2008
Total posts
6,788
Awards
2
Chips
0
What sample size?

Not that I'm a fan of Ultimatebet, but I can reasonably assure you that their software is not "skewed toward bad beats and rewarding bad play." You can't look at a single tourney and make that assessment with any accuracy whatsoever. Observe that pattern over 100k hands minimum on each player and then you may get some interest.

I've played there enough to know I hate their software, and also dislike how they handle security what with one breach after another, but I've never seen anything unusual in the games I've played.
 
tomh7795

tomh7795

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Total posts
545
Chips
0
How can a solid player be a losing player???
 
jolubman

jolubman

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Total posts
768
Chips
0
Show what happens with a small sample size, the results are useless.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,600
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
He got durrrr'd obviously.

Your sample size seems to be very small. It is called 'variance'. There have been days when I've had sessions of getting KO'd from mtts being an 80%+ fav. when the chips went in, multiple times... over & over(talking 20-30 mtt's over the course of a weekend,... stuff like 80/20's pre or w villain drawing to 2 or 3 outs on turn). That's poker! There will be other days where you'll run cardead for hours upon hours (played only 8hands in a SCOOP tourney the other day & actually played it for 4.5hrs., two of the hands I did play were 73s from CO, and T6o from BTN (raised to steal blinds with both... only because my image was ridiculously tight..... but because I'd had zero hands, lol).
Some other days you'll hit flops hard, big prs. will hold up a good % of the time, your draws will hit for you... and you'll be thinking "EZ Game... gonna take it down all the time!" <<< That's poker! (get used to it).
To actually believe it's one particular online poker site.... leads me to believe your thining is going in the wrong direction in a big way.
 
Last edited:
D

Durwood

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Total posts
14
Chips
0
I notice no one replied to my statement about the fact that the minimum deposit on Ultimate Bet is $10 but the minimum withdrawal is $100. That means someone who doesn't like the site can't just pull their money out and go elsewhere. UB gets to put his money in their pocket. That's total garbage. And it's easy enough to verify.

If you don't believe me on the other stuff then verify my research. You don't even need an Ultimate Bet account for it. Just sharkscope the profitable players on UB and watch them play like total morons. The site rewards moronic play.

One thing for sure, I'm not depositing on that site ever again, and I've told them so. I'm going to continue to play only so that I can warn new signups about the site's unfairness and crookedness. Once what's left of my site roll is gone, I'm outta there forever.

Woody
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

Jammin................
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Total posts
11,706
Awards
2
Chips
122
I notice no one replied to my statement about the fact that the minimum deposit on Ultimate Bet is $10 but the minimum withdrawal is $100. That means someone who doesn't like the site can't just pull their money out and go elsewhere. Ultimatebet gets to put his money in their pocket. That's total garbage. And it's easy enough to verify.

If you don't believe me on the other stuff then verify my research. You don't even need an Ultimate Bet account for it. Just sharkscope the profitable players on Ultimatebet and watch them play like total morons. The site rewards moronic play.

One thing for sure, I'm not depositing on that site ever again, and I've told them so. I'm going to continue to play only so that I can warn new signups about the site's unfairness and crookedness. Once what's left of my site roll is gone, I'm outta there forever.

Woody
Iif I am not mistaken, minimum withdrawal is wide spread. Many sites will have a lower deposit vs withdrawel.
I have read of sums from $50 to $500. So that is just site policy and is certainly in the TOS. ( I am not defending UB, just know that minimum withdrawal is not unusual. If it is stated different in their TOS, then it is a reason to flame.)
 
D

Durwood

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Total posts
14
Chips
0
The readily accessible Ultimate Bet TOS doesn't say a single word about withdrawal restrictions. Even a thorough search of their website doesn't reveal the information. You have to email support and request the link to their withdrawal policy, which they keep carefully hidden.

And even if that were not the case, making the minimum deposit one-tenth of the minimum withdrawal is predatory. The excuse you offer, which is "everybody does it," is no excuse at all. If everybody made candles out of Jewish flesh would you say it's okay to be a Nazi?

I also heard from a guy on UB who said he withdrew $500 about six weeks ago and his withdrawal is still on hold. Chances are that Ultimate Bet blocks withdrawals completely and is just a deposit sinkhole.

Woody
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

Jammin................
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Total posts
11,706
Awards
2
Chips
122
uhhh, I guess some posts are best left unanswered. I wasnt offering any excuse for anyone or anything. I was explaining what I have heard is standard policy, not defending it. If you are just looking for people to attack, uhh, well have fun, if it gets you off.

Your remark about nazis as compared to a poker site is kinda scary..... as well as completely out of context AND out of order.....
 
Pothole

Pothole

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Total posts
2,507
Chips
0
The readily accessible Ultimate Bet TOS doesn't say a single word about withdrawal restrictions. Even a thorough search of their website doesn't reveal the information. You have to email support and request the link to their withdrawal policy, which they keep carefully hidden.

And even if that were not the case, making the minimum deposit one-tenth of the minimum withdrawal is predatory. The excuse you offer, which is "everybody does it," is no excuse at all. If everybody made candles out of Jewish flesh would you say it's okay to be a Nazi?

I also heard from a guy on Ultimatebet who said he withdrew $500 about six weeks ago and his withdrawal is still on hold. Chances are that Ultimate Bet blocks withdrawals completely and is just a deposit sinkhole.

Woody

Totally bogus post, go to the withdraw page from the cashier and the link to their withdrawal policy is there on the right hand side of the page. Withdrawals minimums range from $10 to $500 depending on the method, some are fee free and others have up to a $50 fee ( wire transfer ), including how long it should take for you to receive the funds. P2P transfer minimums are also explained along with everything else you need to know and should read BEFORE making a deposit on any site. All electronic withdrawals from all sites remain pending until the poker site gets confirmation from the receiving institution that the funds have actually been received ( although some sites appear to hold them longer in case you decide to reverse the transfer, this can be done by the site up to 30 days after the transfer has actually taken place, Titan does this all the time ) . Your 'nazi' comment is offensive and if you had visited a place like Auschwitz I'm pretty sure you wouldn't make them. The final paragraph is also pure speculation. I have withdrawn over $4000 from AP/UB over the last 2 years and never had a problem, most withdrawals were processed and received in less than 6 hours.
 
D

Durwood

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 7, 2010
Total posts
14
Chips
0
I know for a fact that I tried to withdraw money from Ultimate Bet and was informed that the minimum withdrawal for ANY withdrawal method is $100. Members of Ultimate Bet can verify that for themselves.

I also know that the cashout policy is carefully concealed and there is NO link from any cashier page to any meaningful cashout policy. Again, people can verify that for themselves by just signing up for an account and not even depositing.

So how about we let people find out for themselves whose post is "bogus." And which one of us gets money under the table to promote crooked online gambling sites.
 
Pothole

Pothole

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Total posts
2,507
Chips
0
I know for a fact that I tried to withdraw money from Ultimate Bet and was informed that the minimum withdrawal for ANY withdrawal method is $100. Members of Ultimate Bet can verify that for themselves.

I also know that the cashout policy is carefully concealed and there is NO link from any cashier page to any meaningful cashout policy. Again, people can verify that for themselves by just signing up for an account and not even depositing.

So how about we let people find out for themselves whose post is "bogus." And which one of us gets money under the table to promote crooked online gambling sites.

Pure garbage.


Your Payout of 75 USD for Account ID 4711515 has been processed. This transaction was completed via MoneyBookers. - Please note that the fee for this payout request will be 0
 
Last edited:
Makwa

Makwa

Undesirable Predator
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 30, 2007
Total posts
6,080
Chips
0
Another brainless rigged thread, with no numbers to back it up. Read all the posts above OP and think again, your attitude is baseless, trying to blame a site for some beats is a complete waste of time.

And NO, I wont be running around sharkscope trying to help you prove a ridiculous assertion. ;):confused:

Get back to us when u have 10,000 hands logged with the same players. Holding breath... NOW!!....
 
dmorris68

dmorris68

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
May 27, 2008
Total posts
6,788
Awards
2
Chips
0
I know for a fact that I tried to withdraw money from Ultimate Bet and was informed that the minimum withdrawal for ANY withdrawal method is $100. Members of Ultimate Bet can verify that for themselves.

I also know that the cashout policy is carefully concealed and there is NO link from any cashier page to any meaningful cashout policy. Again, people can verify that for themselves by just signing up for an account and not even depositing.

So how about we let people find out for themselves whose post is "bogus." And which one of us gets money under the table to promote crooked online gambling sites.

LOL. I can't believe I'm wasting my time defending Ultimatebet, considering how much I really dislike them. Least of all to someone who's reading comprehension and attitude stinks -- unless being from Toronto you get different options than US players, in which case you have my apologies.

As others have pointed out, UBs cashout policy is very plainly visible on the Cashier page. Allow me to demonstrate with screenshots:

First, the Cashier->Payouts screen:

ubpayout1.png


And then the result of clicking the link circled above. Note all the $50 options and even a $10 payout option:

ubpoker2.png
ubpayout2.png
 
suit2please

suit2please

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Total posts
832
Chips
0
a simple google search for UltimateBet withdrawal policy would get you right to the page. I don't play there but it took me less than 5 seconds to find it.
 
dg1267

dg1267

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Total posts
4,547
Awards
1
Chips
1
OMG! The OP is just wrong on so many levels. I've been playing on UB for the last two weeks now and I haven't seen any of this. I also sharkscope players for the higher games I play and I've never noticed this at all. In fact, I'm usually on the winning end with good hands played correctly.

I'd need to see some solid proof of this, otherwise it's just bs to me.
 
C

chevanater

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 25, 2007
Total posts
103
Awards
1
Chips
1
It doesnt really make sense to allow players to cash out for less than $100 anyways. They would be spending lots more time/money on withdrawls and probably wouldnt be able to offer it for free anymore. They allow you to deposit for $10 or $20 so that everyone gets a chance to deposit without breaking the bank.
 
fletchdad

fletchdad

Jammin................
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Total posts
11,706
Awards
2
Chips
122
The readily accessible Ultimate Bet TOS doesn't say a single word about withdrawal restrictions. Even a thorough search of their website doesn't reveal the information. You have to email support and request the link to their withdrawal policy, which they keep carefully hidden.

And even if that were not the case, making the minimum deposit one-tenth of the minimum withdrawal is predatory. The excuse you offer, which is "everybody does it," is no excuse at all. If everybody made candles out of Jewish flesh would you say it's okay to be a Nazi?

I also heard from a guy on Ultimatebet who said he withdrew $500 about six weeks ago and his withdrawal is still on hold. Chances are that Ultimate Bet blocks withdrawals completely and is just a deposit sinkhole.

Woody


Just wondering if you want to defend this crap you posted here, or if there is a man inside big enough to say "Ooops, let my emotions control my mouth there". I have to post again, as your comparison here was so out of line and offensive. As I already explained, I was not in anyway defending anything, rather simply (as many others here) trying to inform you what TOS sites have (since you obviously did not inform yourself), without commenting on if I think they are correct or not. (I dont judge if they are or not, I simply decide if I will accept them when I sign onto a site. TOS exist, and its my decision to sign up or not, and if I dont inform myself before hand, and dont like the TOS after the fact, well, it sucks to be me..... ) I am just curious at you silence on the replies to this post, as opposed to your willingness to reply to the others......
 
Last edited:
pfb8888

pfb8888

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Total posts
1,132
Chips
0
find someone to transfer you the 65 +8 check fee on ub and you transfer them money on another site
 
djkismet

djkismet

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 20, 2010
Total posts
81
Chips
0
as far as the deposit-w/drawl amounts go a. like was stated before most sites do that b. thats business and their business is to get you to play and take in as much rake as they can. and as far as the lop sided decks go.... orifice hit the nail right on the head about sayin u need to look over thousands of hands to give the variation true fairness
 
Top