Question about winning poker network and other US site honesty

Hi,
I appreciate your intellect and thoughtful analysis of your play. I do have a few questions after reading your post. your say you are playing 100nl, is that cash games of say $50/$100 blinds or tournaments for $100 buy in? I was just confused by this. I was also wondering if you are seeing the same players at the tables and if they are learning your play tendencies and if this is part of the difference after you have played at the same site for a while, although from what you said it was more the cards that were dealt, not the play from your opponents that was causing your concern.


I will relate my recent experience from playing live $1-$2 and $1-$3 NLHE over the last month. I play tight and probably give up on a lot of hands that would be winners due to not wanting to call every all in bet that I am facing, but usually a steady slow earner that resulted in accumulating a $2000 win over 10 days of playing about 10 hours per day live over the last month. It is not always this good, but usually can grind away and consistently end up a winner when i am reducing my mistakes to a minimum.


That being said, during this period, i was feeling that my cards were running bad enough one time that i started counting how many times my hole card would pair on the flop and while i was counting i had only 2 of 22 hands that resulted in a pair on the flop while counting. I had another day that I could not win with a flopped set. I had 8 flopped sets that day and lost every one to either flush, full house and even quads once (quads that beat my full house!!) I probably don't have to tell you that was a losing day for me. I say this to relate a similar experience over a much smaller number of hands than you are talking about and I have to admit that this didn't continue in the following days or there would be no way that I could have ended up a net winner.


I will be interested in hearing from you on your live experience in Las Vegas. It seems to me that every table plays differently and has it's own personality. I played a couple of days a table that had a bunch of regulars who all knew each other and how they played. It seemed that it the betting went $1, $3 for the small and big blind, almost every hand being straddled for $6-$10 on either the button or UTG because that was what was allowed at this table, then the next opening bet was usually for around $30. I had to play very selectively and cautiously, but I usually got paid when I made a hand. I also had a lot of hands that it cost $20- $30 just to see a flop in a $1-$3 game.


Sorry for rambling on so long, hope to hear more from your Las Vegas Experience. Do you plan on playing tourneys or in the cash game that are ever present at wsop?

Saiyanking said:

Hello all,​

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I am writing this post to get some feedback from other players that use any of the winning poker network skins like ACR or BCP. I am having a hard time believing that they are operating with a true RNG and I wanted to get others thoughts on this.​

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Let me start by saying this is not a rant from a fish that took a bad beat and is now complaining because that won't do anyone any good. I also am a winning player that has made money on Black chip poker as well as betonline poker and withdrawn more than I ever deposited so I don't think I am too bad at poker. I have however tracked some things a lot of things on the betonline, bovada and winning poker network that a several standard deviations away from the norm that I am wondering if anyone else has noticed.​

To describe my situation I am a senior in Chemical engineering and business at the University of California Berkeley graduating in 3 months and I have been player poker for about 4 years now. Aside from playing at stones cardroom in Sacramento before I transferred to Berkeley I mostly played on betonline over the last year depositing $100 and getting it up to at the highest 3K and then just getting kind of stopped from winning any more by the cards before I withdrew and tried my hand at bovada and Black chip.​

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the pattern that keeps seeming to happen is I get on a site and win at a very high rate at first over the first few thousand hands and then reach a point where it seems the sites recognize this and decide not to let me win anymore. It happened several times on betonline where after winning at a high winrate (20+bb/100) for 5-10k hands I then breakeven getting coolered or taking a bad beat after everytime I win money from someone that is making mistakes I would never make. examples being things like one time I had a streak of getting dealt KK vs AA 13 times without ever getting AA vs KK.​

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This happened several times on betonline and then I would leave for awhile and try another site like ignition and bovada where again the same pattern would happen. I win 1k or so in a week or 2 on playing 100NL and then I would hit a wall where no matter how well I played I could not win because of the cards being dealt.​

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When I would go back to betonline I would see this yet again where I would win at first and cards would seem to be fair and after winning at a high rate for a few thousand hands I would start to get limited by permanent "runbad" that woud last well over 20k hands.​

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I would use pokerdope to calculate variance and see that given the winrate I had over the first 5k hands even if that came from me running the top 1% luckest I could, I would have a true winrate that is incompatible with breaking even over 20k hands (hopefully you understand that analysis although its hard to explain typing). I decided this was proof the RNGs were rigged to stop winning players from winning too much and withdrawing.​

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because of this I withdrew my winnings and tried black chip poker where I deposited 750 and within 3k hands at 100NL I had got it up to 2k. I withdrew 850 to take my money back and continued playing but now I over about 15k hands at the cash games I am back to breaking even getting coolered nonstop and taking bad beats.​

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I understand variance and that bad beats happen in poker occasionally but the math of what has happened and the pattern I am seeing over more than 100k hands is pretty clearly not a normal distribution. And it is making me wonder if I am wasting my time on these sites trying to make money.​

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I am planning on moving to vegas after I graduate for the summer to play during the WSOP and when playing live I can deal with the variance fine because I know bad hands are real. but on these US sites it seems like it is not and they are doing what is obviously in their best interest and rigging the game so that losing players don't lose too fast and winning players don't win too much.​

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I know it is in their best interest to have everyone be even so they can rake all deposited money and it seems very much like that is what is going on with all the US sites that are not regulated to make sure this doesn't happen.​

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Has anyone had similar or differing experiences with these sites? Your thoughts and own stories would really help me figure out if I should just stop wasting my time after I make the first 1 or 2K on these sites.​

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