Pot-Limit confusion

I understand that Pot-Limit means you can only bet the amount of chips that are in the pot but I have an issue with something that i dont understand:
ex. hand
Chips in the middle: 160
opponent bets in front of you: 80 chips
now here is where i get confused; you should be able to raise what's in the pot, right? i would think it's 160 + 80 = 240 chips is max. raising amount but when i play it would let me raise a max. of 400 (160 + 80 + 160??)
why is it that you count 2X more of the bets in front of you in the pot?
if someone could clear that up id appreciate it

Think of a raise as a call-and-raise.

In this example, there are 160 in the middle, he bets 80 (making it 240), but then you call 80 (making the pot 320) and then you can raise another 320 (to 640). That's at least how it should be.

The numbers you gave don't really match the standard way of working potlimit. But this at least explains why you can bet "more than the pot," if someone before you has bet.

Edit: I just came home from a night on the town. It's very possible that my math is way off, in which case you're welcome to point it out and make fun of me for it - but the idea should still be the same. Call-and-raise.

Either that or your heads-up opponent only had 400 chips?

no i think FPs right
I just never understood where the extra was was supposed to come from

F Paulsson said:

Edit: I just came home from a night on the town. It's very possible that my math is way off, in which case you're welcome to point it out and make fun of me for it - but the idea should still be the same. Call-and-raise.

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Let's face it, Even Drunk he is smarter than me!!!!!

When you raise the pot, your actually including your own call and raise. So blinds are $5.00 and $10.00. You bet the pot. The pot = $5.00 small blind + $10.00 big blind = $15.00 + your call $10.00 = $25.00 + your raise $10.00 = $35.00 to go. In your example, there's $240 in the pot. You Match, Call and Raise in one bet. $240 + $80 +$80 = $400 to go. Pretty sure you got it right there. If your playing live be sure to anounce your intension to raise the pot. I was watching a WPT event the other night. Greg Raymer raised the pot and even the dealer couldn't figure out the correct amount. They never did get it right.

when i play online, they don't let you open raise like that - only if there's a bettor before you
if there's X dollars in the pot and you're first to act, you can only bet X dollars
but if theres X dollars in the pot and someone bets Y dollars, it lets me raise a maximum of X + Y(their bet) + Y(you're call) + Y(you're raise)
like in your example, dogs, i could open raise for $15 with noone else yet in the pot but the blinds
but if someone raised $5 before me, i could re-raise $30 ($15 + his $5 + my call, $5 + my raise, $5)

Sammyv1 said:

Let's face it, Even Drunk he is smarter than me!!!!!

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lol i know hes a bloody genius

ChuckTs said:

when i play online, they don't let you open raise like that - only if there's a bettor before you

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In blind structured games like Omaha or Hold'em there's always a better before you. The blinds of course. In subsequent rounds of betting, if your first to act, then there is no previous bet to call or raise so the pot is just the pot. If someone bet after you however, the rule would apply as described by F Paulson. Your formula is correct.

ChuckTs said:

but if theres X dollars in the pot and someone bets Y dollars, it lets me raise a maximum of X + Y(their bet) + Y(you're call) + Y(you're raise)
like in your example, dogs, i could open raise for $15 with noone else yet in the pot but the blinds
but if someone raised $5 before me, i could re-raise $30 ($15 + his $5 + my call, $5 + my raise, $5)

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Not sure about this. If there's $15 in the pot then I assume the blinds are $5/$10. Anyone raising before you would have to have bet at least $20. Lets assume they did. The pot then contains $15 + $20 = $35. If you choose to play, your bet must be at least $20 but can be as much as $75 = the $35 in the pot + a $20 call + a $20 raise.

BTW, this applies in NLH too. Even though there's no maximum bet, betting the pot has the same meaning. Be careful not to confuse the size of the pot with betting the pot. They are not the same. On line, most sites have a POT button. I wonder how many people have any idea how many chips are going to come off their stack when they click it. This same question bothered me for the longest time. I'm still not sure what the logic behind it is other than perhaps as a pot builder.