Pokerstars Ban with No Evidence of Wrong doing

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djsparks

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Hi Hi people , i would really like some opinions on my current situation please please please , Let me start by saying i am a tournament player for life , i have played approximately 13,000 games in the last 3 years , lots of tournaments considering , im not great but im in profit and i have never been accused of collusion or cheating ever before as i never have !
So anyway about 10 days ago , about the 20th of July 2013 i was playing Micro Millions $11 dollar event on pokerstars , My room mate and 1 friend were in my apartment , i busted out of game within about half hour and i was complaining to my friend that i was about 80% to double up with all my stack in on turn when i was rivered by a fish , anyway my friend who i have talked into playing a few house games but has never played online said i was out so quick because i sucked at poker , so basically he was giving me a hard time and i said to him he wouldnt last 5 minutes , so we joked around for 5 minutes or so and i said to him to make an account and i would fund him for a game and i bet a beer that he would not last 30 minutes , so he went online and made an account , i transferred him $11 without even thinking about what implications it could have and he played the exact same game about an hour and a half into late reg (now that i think about it , i know it was dumb , but the fact is i had still done nothing wrong) so anyway he went out in about 10 minutes as i expected ... so then i received a e-mail a day later saying that 2 accounts played the same event from the same location and "although that is not against the rules , it is against the rules for someone to play 2 times in the same event" ! O.k fair enough i understood why they sent it , i can see how that might look , i wont let it happen again ... But then a day later im in a game and i get a message saying my pokerstars account has been frozen and i need to contact customer service , so i contact them and they say i need to verify my account , so i do ... days later after i message them asking what is happening they say we are waiting for all accounts involved to respond , so i ask my friend if he can please do whatever they ask because i care about my account , so he then verifies his account a week later , by this point i have been without an account for about 8-9 days , then when i finally get a response it says ...
"Hello **** ,

I am a senior member of the Game Integrity Team. I will explain to you as best I can what is happening and why your account will remain closed for the time being.

As a senior member, I was contacted by the agent who received your Emails today, asking if it was OK to re-open your account to let you play. I reviewed your case carefully, and determined that there was sufficient evidence to conclude that ***** did not, in fact, play the event. Instead, I believe YOU played in the event, thus having two accounts in the same event, which we consider cheating.

I also have concluded that there is a reasonable doubt as to whether ***** wrote the responses we received to questions sent to '*********'. I believe that he did not, and that instead, *YOU* wrote those responses in an attempt to deceive us regarding what actually happened.

Because of this doubt, your account will remain closed until such time as the entire Senior Game Integrity staff can review the evidence and reach a unanimous conclusion. As our staff is scattered over several offices and continents, this will likely take several days.

Until such time as that unanimous conclusion is reached, we will not be able to detail the reasons for this doubt. We will be unable to answer additional Emails regarding the matter. It will be discussed internally and you will be contacted only at the conclusion of our deliberations.

Sending a flood of duplicate Emails to us again as spam will only further harm your case. It will not speed up the resolution.

Should the unanimous decision be that we find that you did indeed play two accounts in one event and then try to cover it up, the resolution may involve an extended "timeout", an account closure of weeks to months.

Please be patient. We will try to resolve this as soon as possible, but it will not be today, and may be several days yet.

Regards,

Jeff
Senior PokerStars Game Integrity Specialist"

Now the fact of the matter is that i have done nothing wrong AT ALL , except that i e-mailed them a lot because i usually play about 60 hours a week and i have anxiety and depression issues and i have needed to be medicated in the last week and a half with no poker ... I have tried and tried to discuss this with them and offered for the 3 of us to all give any evidence they want about the day in question because we will all tell the truth and my other friend that was there will remember because i was giving him a hard time about how bad he was at poker after he busted out so quick , so there are 3 of us there as witnesses , 2 verified accounts and no reason but a assumption or personal hatred for me because i sent them a lot of e-mails , there is no evidence and there never will be because i did nothing wrong , now my question is , with a loosely based accusation , which is all it is , can they really ban me when i have done nothing wrong ? can i seek legal help to get back online ? i really have done nothing wrong and i dont see how this 1 event where my friend late registered a event for 10 minutes that contained nearly 20,000 people could be such a big deal considering "it is not against the rules for 2 players to play from the same location" , so with no evidence AT ALL can they really do this to me ? it has been 10 days and i am getting really depressed , should i self harm it will definitely be their fault ... I have no other hobby or job because of my diagnosed mental illness, how can they take it away from me just for assumptions ? I understand a warning but please tell me what i can do , i will fight it to the death , I AM INNOCENT !
 
kidkvno1

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Hello, welcome to CC! Did your friends send in a copy of their photo ID, and their mailing address? PS needs to see that the IP numbers are not from the same IP address!
 
B

bernotas22

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Hi Hi people , i would really like some opinions on my current situation please please please , Let me start by saying i am a tournament player for life , i have played approximately 13,000 games in the last 3 years , lots of tournaments considering , im not great but im in profit and i have never been accused of collusion or cheating ever before as i never have !
So anyway about 10 days ago , about the 20th of July 2013 i was playing Micro Millions $11 dollar event on pokerstars , My room mate and 1 friend were in my apartment , i busted out of game within about half hour and i was complaining to my friend that i was about 80% to double up with all my stack in on turn when i was rivered by a fish , anyway my friend who i have talked into playing a few house games but has never played online said i was out so quick because i sucked at poker , so basically he was giving me a hard time and i said to him he wouldnt last 5 minutes , so we joked around for 5 minutes or so and i said to him to make an account and i would fund him for a game and i bet a beer that he would not last 30 minutes , so he went online and made an account , i transferred him $11 without even thinking about what implications it could have and he played the exact same game about an hour and a half into late reg (now that i think about it , i know it was dumb , but the fact is i had still done nothing wrong) so anyway he went out in about 10 minutes as i expected ... so then i received a e-mail a day later saying that 2 accounts played the same event from the same location and "although that is not against the rules , it is against the rules for someone to play 2 times in the same event" ! O.k fair enough i understood why they sent it , i can see how that might look , i wont let it happen again ... But then a day later im in a game and i get a message saying my pokerstars account has been frozen and i need to contact customer service , so i contact them and they say i need to verify my account , so i do ... days later after i message them asking what is happening they say we are waiting for all accounts involved to respond , so i ask my friend if he can please do whatever they ask because i care about my account , so he then verifies his account a week later , by this point i have been without an account for about 8-9 days , then when i finally get a response it says ...
"Hello **** ,

I am a senior member of the Game Integrity Team. I will explain to you as best I can what is happening and why your account will remain closed for the time being.

As a senior member, I was contacted by the agent who received your Emails today, asking if it was OK to re-open your account to let you play. I reviewed your case carefully, and determined that there was sufficient evidence to conclude that ***** did not, in fact, play the event. Instead, I believe YOU played in the event, thus having two accounts in the same event, which we consider cheating.

I also have concluded that there is a reasonable doubt as to whether ***** wrote the responses we received to questions sent to '*********'. I believe that he did not, and that instead, *YOU* wrote those responses in an attempt to deceive us regarding what actually happened.

Because of this doubt, your account will remain closed until such time as the entire Senior Game Integrity staff can review the evidence and reach a unanimous conclusion. As our staff is scattered over several offices and continents, this will likely take several days.

Until such time as that unanimous conclusion is reached, we will not be able to detail the reasons for this doubt. We will be unable to answer additional Emails regarding the matter. It will be discussed internally and you will be contacted only at the conclusion of our deliberations.

Sending a flood of duplicate Emails to us again as spam will only further harm your case. It will not speed up the resolution.

Should the unanimous decision be that we find that you did indeed play two accounts in one event and then try to cover it up, the resolution may involve an extended "timeout", an account closure of weeks to months.

Please be patient. We will try to resolve this as soon as possible, but it will not be today, and may be several days yet.

Regards,

Jeff
Senior PokerStars Game Integrity Specialist"

Now the fact of the matter is that i have done nothing wrong AT ALL , except that i e-mailed them a lot because i usually play about 60 hours a week and i have anxiety and depression issues and i have needed to be medicated in the last week and a half with no poker ... I have tried and tried to discuss this with them and offered for the 3 of us to all give any evidence they want about the day in question because we will all tell the truth and my other friend that was there will remember because i was giving him a hard time about how bad he was at poker after he busted out so quick , so there are 3 of us there as witnesses , 2 verified accounts and no reason but a assumption or personal hatred for me because i sent them a lot of e-mails , there is no evidence and there never will be because i did nothing wrong , now my question is , with a loosely based accusation , which is all it is , can they really ban me when i have done nothing wrong ? can i seek legal help to get back online ? i really have done nothing wrong and i dont see how this 1 event where my friend late registered a event for 10 minutes that contained nearly 20,000 people could be such a big deal considering "it is not against the rules for 2 players to play from the same location" , so with no evidence AT ALL can they really do this to me ? it has been 10 days and i am getting really depressed , should i self harm it will definitely be their fault ... I have no other hobby or job because of my diagnosed mental illness, how can they take it away from me just for assumptions ? I understand a warning but please tell me what i can do , i will fight it to the death , I AM INNOCENT !

why are you so mad? relax and solve the issue if you did something wrong take it like a man and accept it, you can still go play on other sites in the meantime nothing to freak out over
 
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coelho2013

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. already something similar happened to me, and soon asked for a picture ID to you ai then released their conta.eu played with friends using the wireles same location were also blocked with suspected fraud, after a while we prove that there was not anything wrong and released all our accounts.
 
the lab man

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Now the fact of the matter is that i have done nothing wrong AT ALL , except that i e-mailed them a lot because i usually play about 60 hours a week and i have anxiety and depression issues and i have needed to be medicated in the last week and a half with no poker ... I have tried and tried to discuss this with them and offered for the 3 of us to all give any evidence they want about the day in question because we will all tell the truth and my other friend that was there will remember because i was giving him a hard time about how bad he was at poker after he busted out so quick , so there are 3 of us there as witnesses , 2 verified accounts and no reason but a assumption or personal hatred for me because i sent them a lot of e-mails , there is no evidence and there never will be because i did nothing wrong , now my question is , with a loosely based accusation , which is all it is , can they really ban me when i have done nothing wrong ? can i seek legal help to get back online ? i really have done nothing wrong and i dont see how this 1 event where my friend late registered a event for 10 minutes that contained nearly 20,000 people could be such a big deal considering "it is not against the rules for 2 players to play from the same location" , so with no evidence AT ALL can they really do this to me ? it has been 10 days and i am getting really depressed , should i self harm it will definitely be their fault ... I have no other hobby or job because of my diagnosed mental illness, how can they take it away from me just for assumptions ? I understand a warning but please tell me what i can do , i will fight it to the death , I AM INNOCENT !
How Do You think this looks like at poker stars?
Player A Busts out of a tourney which is not a re-entry or a rebuy.
A new account is signed up immediately(5 Mins later) same IPS address and then transferred money to New Player B to enter the same tourney from Player A who has busted out of same tourney. IT screams Cheating
Sorry but this looks like cheating ,scamming, underhanded, whatever you want to call it. What you did was wrong and against all the rules of the Poker Client. I for one am so happy that Stars are on top of these kind of incidents.
Good luck on playing again
 
EvertonGirl

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I am now glad none of my friends like poker or I would be saying you are not registering at pokerstars from my IP.

I would also be mad if they banned me for nothing, I hope you get it sorted soon and be able to play soon. I would also be depressed if I could not play again
 
naruto_miu

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Well first of all welcome to CC..

Now that is out of the way, I must state you have the best Intro I've ever seen on CC in all the years I've been on this site...It wasn't your normal, "Hi My name is Dave, and I'm from canada", Instead, you really went out of your way here to take it down like a champ..

Now I don't really believe in "I'll harm myself over poker", so save that for yourself (As someone has pointed out, there are plenty of sites out there), I myself have a life time ban on "Titan", and trust me, one of the mods know the reason, and it's a pretty funny/stupid reason, but it's there rules (We must live by them)..

Now you stated you didn't cheat, correct? That your-friend and you are in fact 2 different ppl, correct? That you 2 play 2 different styles of poker, or am I missing something here? The fact that P.S has gone to this extreme to want to verify, an $11 dollar game (Is kind of harsh), but it's there "Policy", to want to catch (crocks/thieves), and the rest of the batch, is that fair to the innocent person, no? Yet it does keep the cheaters always wondering, does it not?

Again I'm not stating you did in fact cheat, but it's odd, how in an email, that they still believe that you and the other person involved are the same person or that you did in-fact right such and such message from that persons, comp/email address (that was the bit that I found odd).

I mean seriously, it's one thing for 2 friends to have the same style of play, would it be the same from grammatical errors/spelling, and over all writing structure:confused:
 
UnNa7uRal

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That sounds bad. Good luck with getting your account back!
 
cardriverx

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How Do You think this looks like at Poker Stars?
Player A Busts out of a tourney which is not a re-entry or a rebuy.
A new account is signed up immediately(5 Mins later) same IPS address and then transferred money to New Player B to enter the same tourney from Player A who has busted out of same tourney. IT screams Cheating
Sorry but this looks like cheating ,scamming, underhanded, whatever you want to call it. What you did was wrong and against all the rules of the Poker Client. I for one am so happy that Stars are on top of these kind of incidents.
Good luck on playing again

what? yeah, it looks like that, but OP makes a solid case to create a reasonable doubt within Pokerstars in that both accounts should have been allowed to keep playing IMO. What did he do wrong?
 
Danilo

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Hello, you say that the two accounts are verified? You can also send the PokerStars support, a copy of a recent proof of address (less than 3 months), a telephone bill, a bill for gas or electricity, to prove that you and your friend are different people and live in different addresses
 
DaveE

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If I was the pokerstars rep I'm do exactly what he did. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt you look (in his eyes) guilty.

Get your proof together, send it and hope for the best.

Email them saying it was a dumb mistake, it will never happen again, didn't realize how bad this would look but now I understand....

Only because it's stars you might be re-instated but don't count on it.
 
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djsparks

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Hello, welcome to CC! Did your friends send in a copy of their photo ID, and their mailing address? PS needs to see that the IP numbers are not from the same IP address!

yes , when i received the second email from the senior member of staff we had already established that we were 2 people , we live at the same address and he did use the same IP address ... but as i said to them , i have played around 13,000 games online , they think i chose this 11 dollar event with 20,000 people in it to make a second account in someones name that verified that he lives at the same address , and lasted less than an hour with 2 attempts ? generally i make money , finished 1st in big 16.50 2 days before it happened and made 3 final tables of games w over 2000 people in them in the week before , meaning i dont go out in 10 minutes normally unless i push someone in with a set in my hands and they call all in on turn with flush draw and hit it as they did for the time i played this event in question .
 
D

djsparks

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why are you so mad? relax and solve the issue if you did something wrong take it like a man and accept it, you can still go play on other sites in the meantime nothing to freak out over

I was told i was banned for 3 months and i freaked out because winning into live games is what i live for , and then now that i am medicated , depressed and angry as hell that they do this to me , i sent them a response telling them how angry depressed and medicated i was because of 2 weeks with no pokerstars and they then said that due to my depression they advise i dont play poker and i am no longer welcome at pokerstars or full tilt for life ! Problem is i was WAY more depressed before poker , now im way more depressed than before without poker ... As i said to them , you are denying me poker because i have a mental condition , that is like denying a person with MS a beer because you assume they have had enough ! You can be sued for denying a person with MS a drink if they are sober , it is not their place to judge me or my mental state unless they believe i will self harm because of it , and the only reason i would consider self harm is now i can not win into live poker for the rest of my life ... that is facking depressing man !
 
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djsparks

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Well first of all welcome to CC..

Now that is out of the way, I must state you have the best Intro I've ever seen on CC in all the years I've been on this site...It wasn't your normal, "Hi My name is Dave, and I'm from Canada", Instead, you really went out of your way here to take it down like a champ..

Now I don't really believe in "I'll harm myself over poker", so save that for yourself (As someone has pointed out, there are plenty of sites out there), I myself have a life time ban on "Titan", and trust me, one of the mods know the reason, and it's a pretty funny/stupid reason, but it's there rules (We must live by them)..

Now you stated you didn't cheat, correct? That your-friend and you are in fact 2 different ppl, correct? That you 2 play 2 different styles of poker, or am I missing something here? The fact that P.S has gone to this extreme to want to verify, an $11 dollar game (Is kind of harsh), but it's there "Policy", to want to catch (crocks/thieves), and the rest of the batch, is that fair to the innocent person, no? Yet it does keep the cheaters always wondering, does it not?

Again I'm not stating you did in fact cheat, but it's odd, how in an email, that they still believe that you and the other person involved are the same person or that you did in-fact right such and such message from that persons, comp/email address (that was the bit that I found odd).

I mean seriously, it's one thing for 2 friends to have the same style of play, would it be the same from grammatical errors/spelling, and over all writing structure:confused:

for the record my friends e-mail is basically this exactly word for word , i just read it and typed it , he showed me and there is no reason for assumptions .. he wrote "im an english back packer so i only have a passport and i can get a bank statement for you if i have to , but i dont even really play poker and i dont care about the account , so unless i have to verify my account for my friends benefit then i dont care , but i dont have any utility bills because im travelling ... do you still need me to verify and will a passport do ?

Now keeping in mind i have panic attacks and anxiety attacks , if i had access to his account to "reply myself" and they had asked me to verify and i had access to his passport which he did send to them eventually , fact is i would have sent it immediately , not waited a week like he did !

So anyway i dragged him into town to send it and they said they had verified his account .
 
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djsparks

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How Do You think this looks like at Poker Stars?
Player A Busts out of a tourney which is not a re-entry or a rebuy.
A new account is signed up immediately(5 Mins later) same IPS address and then transferred money to New Player B to enter the same tourney from Player A who has busted out of same tourney. IT screams Cheating
Sorry but this looks like cheating ,scamming, underhanded, whatever you want to call it. What you did was wrong and against all the rules of the Poker Client. I for one am so happy that Stars are on top of these kind of incidents.
Good luck on playing again

for the record it is not illegal or "against the rules" for 2 people to enter a tournament from the same ip address , pokerstars will not let 2 people at the same address enter in a sit n go , it is documented as what is and what is not against the rules ... i actually did nothing wrong , and you really think after 13,000 online games i signed in busted out made an account just for this 11 dollar event and transferred money to my own second account and then played a 2nd time in the same event ... i mean it is too stupid for words , but i knew for a fact that it was o.k for him to play the same tournament , NOT AGAINST THE RULES ... I understand a warning , and a assumption , but i also verified that i exist as me , and my friend verified that he is living here , that is enough with a warning and saying if you enter the same events then we will assume you could be the same person cheating ... FACT IS = i would never ever ever let anyone play in the same game as me from same ip address , it was stupid to assume that because i was doing nothing wrong by the rules that i would not get in trouble ... but i did nothing wrong ! And poker is my life , and the only way to win into live events in australia is through fecking pokerstars ... Sad days , i went the last 2 years to ANZPT and APPT and won in through pokerstars both times , 23rd of 840 in last main event i played there ... Now what ? I have issues flying because of rupturing sinus last 2 times i flew so i cant even try to win into foreign games through 888 ... this is bull shit and you are not nice to say this , even though i technically did nothing wrong !
 
Debi

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Moved to poker rooms. Please use paragraphs to make your posts easier to read. :)
 
D

djsparks

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There is one salvation for me , and it is years away ... they are possibly building basically the biggest casino in the world about 15 minutes away from where i live ... has anyone heard about the 4.2 billion dollar casino to be built in Cairns Queensland ? Looks amazing , hope it gets approved and they hurry up , then wsop will come to my town and i wont need stars ! http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-...rst-stage-of-42b-cairns-casino-resort/4860456
 
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djsparks

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Moved to poker rooms. Please use paragraphs to make your posts easier to read. :)

O.k dakota , thanks ,
sorry im new to forum ,
can you explain what moved to poker rooms means ?
 
Debi

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O.k dakota , thanks ,
sorry im new to forum ,
can you explain what moved to poker rooms means ?

You had posted this in the introductions forum - not many people read that forum. This is more relevant to Poker Rooms so I moved it.
 
EvertonGirl

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DJ I hope you get it sorted soon, sucks that your friend took a week to send them his passport, but at least he did and it proves you are in fact 2 people.

I know what depression is like and feel for you. I hope you start to feel better soon and start to play poker soon.
 
WVHillbilly

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Stars has every right to refuse any customer they choose. There is no way they are going to let an admitted problem gambler (you told them you get more depressed when you can't play) back on to their site.
 
R

RamdeeBen

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pokerstars are by far the most fair site out there and when they say they believe you *might* of wrote the emails or even played the event I wouldn't really doubt that although of course they could be wrong.

They won't just randomly say that; without suspecting something. If you are innocent of both; then why would you get upset about it? It will be resolved in your favour. It will all come down to them checking the hand histories of both events, if they are played quite similarly then there's no doubt it was you playing given you have already said how bad your friend is etc; the play in both tournaments will be completely different.

The emails will come down to how you have worded your emails and how your friend worded his. It will be blatantly obvious if you typed both emails.



All that said; like I say - if you are in fact telling the truth, then why are you getting upset about it? Let them do their job.



I'd also actually recommend you not playing poker given your state of mind and depression. Given what you said in your first post about self harming etc etc, I think it would be in your interest and pokerstars to actually keep you banned forever because it seems you might have a problem. If pokerstars sees your first post; if anything this will will cause you to get banned permanently just because of how mentally unstable you seem. They certainly wouldn't want anyone killing themselves over poker; it's not good for business.
 
curly

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good luck getting this sorted out, what ever you do, do not bug them with e-mails about this or there will be no chance of ever getting back on there. I know they told you that as well but I want you take that part seriously.
 
absoluthamm

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Stars has every right to refuse any customer they choose. There is no way they are going to let an admitted problem gambler (you told them you get more depressed when you can't play) back on to their site.

Agreed.

And after reading through the whole thing, the problem was not that your friend registered and played through your IP, but that they don't believe that it was the friend, but that it was OP. I have heard multiple times over the years of people doing the same and just making an account with a friend's name and address so that they could verify later if they had to by having the friend contact them etc.

You most likely made matters worse by constantly flooding them with emails. The guilty are going to try to over-prove their alibi whereas someone who is in the clear will most likely make their statement and be ok with that because they know it's the truth and there is nothing more to add.
 
ChaDi

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hi, normal imagine that each player would therefore ip 2 or 3 times more likely to win would be a bloody mess $ 2 or 3 computers on the same address but you just play two or three different tournaments on the same address no problem. GL
 
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