No HUD Allowed

Rijckenborg

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Some poker room started to ban the use of third party software.
Those software work because they exploit poker room who have leaked code, open door.
It's pretty frightening.
I cannot believe that it is so easy for them to access hand history, as an example.
Why poker room don't protect their software?
Who can be sure than third party software do not hijack our computer?
I'm pretty sure that BOT also need hand history to work.
I don't understand why some online poker players are against BOT
but want to use HUD at all cost.

I don't use HUD and never I will.
I do not want to robotize my play.
 
AKQ

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Some poker room started to ban the use of third party software.
Those software work because they exploit poker room who have leaked code, open door.
It's pretty frightening.
I cannot believe that it is so easy for them to access hand history, as an example.
Why poker room don't protect their software?
Who can be sure than third party software do not hijack our computer?
I'm pretty sure that BOT also need hand history to work.
I don't understand why some online poker players are against BOT
but want to use HUD at all cost.

I don't use HUD and never I will.
I do not want to robotize my play.
Huds are not Robotizing your play
Hud stats are giving you informed information on your opponents
what you do with that info from there is your own
 
Debi

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Obtaining HUD stats is not the result of leaks in their software.
 
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fundiver199

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I don't understand why some online poker players are against BOT but want to use HUD at all cost.

To me this is no more strange than wanting to have instruments in your car to assist the driver but being against autonomous driving cars. I think, there is a ton of misconceptions about, what trackers are, and what they can do to your game. Just because I have a tracker, does not mean, I am protected from losing. I still have to make educated guesses about, what my opponents are holding, and sometimes I will end up with the short end of the stick as in this collection from a 5k hand sample on 888 poker.

 
frank174

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I would have thought in this day and age with all the privacy concerns i'm surprised that they allow this,I don't recall saying to the poker sites it was okay to do this.It's one thing to gather info on a player while playing with them, it's cheating if you have to use anything but your brain.Poker went legit to get away from cheats and now everyone thinks its okay to use software to gather info that doesn't belong to them.Poker sites will lose the rec player and numbers will drop and you be left with computer vs computer.if you can't do it with pencil and paper it shouldn't be allowed period this isn't a grey area it's cheating plain and simple,oh ya for people with huds did you start winning more when you started using it.If the answer is yes which it likely is its not because of your own abilities its the software your likely the same player you were before and the true judge of that is did your live play improve:confused:
 
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fundiver199

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It's one thing to gather info on a player while playing with them, it's cheating if you have to use anything but your brain.

And university students should only be allowed to use manual typewriters and an abacus for calculations, because this is how, it was back in 1947, so everything else is cheating :D
 
dzemer

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Personaly im against using HUDs and i dont use it and never did.
But if someone need it, then why not. They shouldnt ban it, some people need to collect informations about players at the table cause they cant remember how they play. If they ever plays or will be play live, then they cant handle it without help.
 
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fundiver199

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If they ever plays or will be play live, then they cant handle it without help.

So if someone cant fly an aeroplane or a space shuttle without the assistance of instruments, then he can also not ride a bicycle without the same instruments? I hate to sound so arrogant but for petes sake guys wake up! Online poker has very little to do with life poker, its a completely different game.
 
frank174

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shouldn't be allowed any outside help period, supposed to be a game between you and me not you and a computer program and me, wake up its a game for cash between people no outside help should be needed or allowed.We are not flying planes were playing a game for cash get a grip on reality and make a real comparison,things have progressed in the world but cheating is still cheating,I don't think the rules have changed
 
Alucard

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I don't get it. How does it robotize your play?
Don't you want to improve your game & have way better results? Robotizing play would be playing on annonymous sites without any history at all not knowing whether there's a real person behind the avatar.
Huds & Hand Histories counter those things & keep games fair & safe.

Consider a live tourney table of 6 players.
5 players out of 6 don't know anything about the other players. They are clueless about the others game & just try to play the hand they are dealt with.
But the other guy has researched the other players. He knows if the other player is loose or tight, how many tourneys he plays, how many he cashed, has a general idea about their poker ability. Also he picks out on live reads.
He comes better prepared.

Same with a hud & all other tools in online poker
 
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fundiver199

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shouldn't be allowed any outside help period, supposed to be a game between you and me not you and a computer program and me, wake up its a game for cash between people no outside help should be needed or allowed.We are not flying planes were playing a game for cash get a grip on reality and make a real comparison,things have progressed in the world but cheating is still cheating,I don't think the rules have changed

A HUD is not like an autopilot, that fly the plane for you. Its a instrument, which you can use to make smarter decisions like the altimeter in a plane. And of course its not cheating to use software, that is allowed by the poker site. You can use one also, and if you dont want to, its your choise. Its also your choise, where you play, and its your obligations to read the TOS of a poker site, before you start playing. And if you dont like the TOS, dont play, its that simple.
 
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fundiver199

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I watched this video, how do you feel after that? This is terrible, especially since only 5 thousand hands. About 1 year ago something similar happened to me, only it was at a distance of 200 thousand hands. As a result, I smashed 2 mouse :)


Ha ha. To be honest I suffered some tilt issues, when these hands happened in short succession, and it let to further losses in some other hands, that I clearly misplayed, and which are not included in the video. I am ok now though, because I managed to win over 9k hands at 10NL full ring, so including rakeback and cashing in some freerolls, after playing 4 weeks at 888, I am back to zero more or less.

I made this video for another forum and just choose to share it here, because some people seem to have this silly idea, that a HUD is a magical tool, which prevent you from losing. Well I was using my HUD in those 11 hands, and just look what happened.

Now I get it, that some people dont want to use a HUD, but there is no need to be so emotional about it. Nobody is being cheated, because some poker sites allow HUDs, and some players use them. If you dont like it, just wote with your feet and play on other sites or in other games. On 888 for instance Snap poker fast fold tables are HUD-free.

And if you want poker to be about looking your opponent in the eye and making some sick soul read, then play live poker. Online is never going to be like that, since for starters you are playing against a screen name, and you don’t even know, if that person is a man or woman or how old. Online poker is always going to be less personal and more mathematical, which is why, trackers and HUDs were developed in the first place.
 
Spaceman

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I am confused. Did you mean that because of a leak some player who never played a hand with you can have access to your hand history? Or you have a problem with HUD in general?
 
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fundiver199

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I am confused. Did you mean that because of a leak some player who never played a hand with you can have access to your hand history? Or you have a problem with HUD in general?


I think, the OP mixes up different things. On many poker sites players are allowed to download history of the hands, they play, and for instance share them here or put them into whatever program, they like, for off the table analysis. This is not against any rules, its not due to “leaked code” or “open door” or anything malicious at all.

However there are certain sites, that have done datamining of all major poker sites, so that they can display the history of online players including their overall results. This is actually against the TOS of poker sites, and it has surely hurt online poker. For instance some big losers were surely not happy to see their results exposes, and some might have quit poker completely as a result.

So this I am actually pretty strongly against, and I dont quite understand, why the lawyers of for instance pokerstars have not been able to do more about it, or why sites cant protect themselfes from this datamining.

However if you are a micro stakes player, I really dont think, this matter at all. If someone wants to dig into sharkscope to analyse their opponents before playing a 5$ MTT on Stars, they would have so much work to do, that they had no time to actually play. But for high stakes games, this datamining is a real issue.
 
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I agree

I agree with you, the game to be tasty can not be robotized,
 
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fundiver199

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I agree with you, the game to be tasty can not be robotized,


Live poker player: “This guy has been splashing chips around, since he sat down at the table, and he just ordered yet another drink. So I dont think, he has anything, and therefore I am going to raise his donk bet and see, what happens.

HUD-user: “This guy has been donk betting 6 times out of 8 opportunities. So I dont think, he has anything, and therefore I am going to raise his donk bet and see, what happens.”

GTO solver user: “I am facing a donk bet of 63% of the pot, and this hand is in the upper 42% of my range, so I have to call to stay within my minimum defense frequency. I am not going to raise though, because if I raise this hand, then my raising range will have to many bluffs”.

Now tell me, who is most “robotized”, and who is playing closest to the traditional read based life poker player?
 
dino

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playing with hud gives you some knowledge about your opponent, if you already played with him before.
About other guys is helpfull to collect info, etc..., it's up to you how you going to use it, or not, your choice.

Don't tell me that you don't make any notes about other guys playing against you?
 
PaxMundi

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To me this is no more strange than wanting to have instruments in your car to assist the driver but being against autonomous driving cars.

That's a very good point,power steering sure is nice but i still want to be in charge of the steering wheel.
 
alienat3d

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I'm a HUD-user, but I still thinking, notes are the king.

Listen, guys, that's really fun to read... All of you, who writes, that HUD is cheating, I have a question for you: Did you actually used it yourself?! If not, then your assumptions about it just make no sense. Sorry, but how can you blame something you don't even know, how it actually works?

Try to play with HUD for a month (there is a free trial version) and then come back and tell me, that it's pure cheating and since you installed it, your winning fly high to the sky, you're simply printing money. Because is that what you going to tell us about HUD.

Well, don't be too disappointed, as you could probably make even worse results, than when you been playing without using HUD.
I agree that HUD provides a little help, especially for multi-tabling. You can play more tables and hands with HUD, as you don't have to watch every action because HUD helps you a bit recording for you statistics.

But is it actually good?
Yes and not.
On one hand, you are available to play more hands per hour on another hand, you are paying less attention to action and making less self-written notes, which is bad for your edge at games. So you gotta sacrifice one for another.

But actually, if you're being present at the game you're playing in terms of, that you're actually watching every hand and making notes - well, in this case, HUD becomes a pretty much unnecessary thing, because you probably know your opponents better already from notes and watching how they play, than any statistic can give you from the same amount of hands.

Now here is another thing about HUD, I want to point at, for those who never used it. The problem is, for the most stats you need such a gigantic amount of hands been played together, that you hardly can ever collect, so that a stat look as a plausible one.

Basically, there are just a few stats, that really helpful in any HUD, although some have dozens of them hanging. It's because you don't need to have so big hand seize to start believing in it: VPIP (says what % of hands this player actually plays) and PFR (pre-flop raise). Those two can help define a player as a TAG, or NIT, or LAG or Call Station obviously, but still, become to be plausible only from like 300 hands... And even then villain can differ from his patterns and start to play different, because of tilt, being drunk, emotions, distractions or whatever else.

And these are "the fastest to believe in stats", most other stats, like donk bet, floating, check-raise, squeeze, cold call etc. Well, you need like thousands of hands to start looking on them at all! See what I mean?
You just won't have so many hands ever if you play MTTs or even just playing SNGs/Cash on lower limits.

You will get such amounts on high limits of course, because there are mostly the same villains playing and just less traffic in general, but then there is another problem comes out, that ruins all the statistics. There are usually only very good players, who know the importance of "changing gears" and playing unexploitable poker. So, if you hope that your HUD will help against them, it can be that it works against you. So I wouldn't rely too much on HUD against good players, who changing their style all the time.

At the end of my post, I want to say, that I just fail to understand why you guys are so against HUD? It doesn't really give such a big advantage at play at all! It just slightly a help, that you don't really can much rely on. I'm still more rely on my notes, than on HUD.

I can easily back to play without HUD at all, I just need to reduce the amount of games then, but it's not a problem at all!
What is a real problem for me - is that I can't download and save my own hand history on partypoker anymore. And this is a real bullsh1t. How do I suppose to learn something from my session if I can't watch it through, nor analyze it, nor share it with my poker buddies or Cardschat forum to ask opinions about it?

And I can't stress enough, how after game analyze is important for any poker player, who wants not just gambling, but serious about his game and tries to improve it daily in order to play higher limits.
Without downloadable hand history it's just not possible, so I'm moving to play to the other sides, where I still have my hand history. And it really has not much to do with HUD.
 
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TerryBLE

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I am not against use because everyone can use if want (although I do not use) Anyway, I find it interesting the new style of game that this will generate in PP, and at least for now there are other rooms for those who want to continue using :bandit: ...
 
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Huds

I always hated huds the only reason i started using one is coz everyone else is using it, it felt unfair not to when everyone else is using it, but i hope sll pokersite ban all huds. And we all play on pure skills!
 
danix

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It is past time for Pokerstars to do something to ban HUDs as other rooms are already doing so will make the game more competitive as HUDs will create a huge advantage for REG not to mention teams that create a unique team database all It has to end this already selling database on the internet. Ending this the game will be more fair between recreational and REGs.
 
barbados

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I don't think statistics are spying. Statistics can be used wisely or illiterate. So everything remains on the conscience of using HUD.
 
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canabero

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HUDS don't give you a real advantage in the game they are really overrated.i don't use it basically because i don't need it.

they are useful for players that play in multitables and don't have a lot of time to get some info of their opponents ( the same info you can get with a decent memory playing live poker)
 
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