c9h13no3
Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
A few words of advice:
1) Building a bankroll from nothing takes forever. If you don't have serious patience to play for ~5-6 months earning pennies at a time, you won't make it.
2) Playing tons of freerolls will harm your game. It will be somewhat difficult to make the adjustment to playing for actual money.
3) You should pick a site not just on the amount of freeroll money they give away, but also their microstakes options. For example, Full Tilt runs a lot of freerolls, but their options for playing with that money after you make it are horrible. The lowest buy-in sit & go at full tilt is 1$, and it has a 25% rake. At Ultimate Bet, for example, they have $0.50 sit & go's that have a 5 cent rake (10%). So its much easier to build your bankroll after you win a couple of freerolls.
4) In my experience freeroll whoring, I'd probably start with pokerstars, bodog, ultimate bet, or carbon poker.
5) Play private freerolls. Cardschat & other sites offer freerolls that have vastly reduced fields so its much easier to cash.
If it were up to me, what I would do is this: Play in freerolls until you cash in one at whatever site you like best. Then, use those freeroll winnings to supplement your first deposit. Playing freerolls will build up some discipline, however, its just terribly slow at building bankroll.
1) Building a bankroll from nothing takes forever. If you don't have serious patience to play for ~5-6 months earning pennies at a time, you won't make it.
2) Playing tons of freerolls will harm your game. It will be somewhat difficult to make the adjustment to playing for actual money.
3) You should pick a site not just on the amount of freeroll money they give away, but also their microstakes options. For example, Full Tilt runs a lot of freerolls, but their options for playing with that money after you make it are horrible. The lowest buy-in sit & go at full tilt is 1$, and it has a 25% rake. At Ultimate Bet, for example, they have $0.50 sit & go's that have a 5 cent rake (10%). So its much easier to build your bankroll after you win a couple of freerolls.
4) In my experience freeroll whoring, I'd probably start with pokerstars, bodog, ultimate bet, or carbon poker.
5) Play private freerolls. Cardschat & other sites offer freerolls that have vastly reduced fields so its much easier to cash.
If it were up to me, what I would do is this: Play in freerolls until you cash in one at whatever site you like best. Then, use those freeroll winnings to supplement your first deposit. Playing freerolls will build up some discipline, however, its just terribly slow at building bankroll.
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
C9's advice, plus this;
It won't be till you make the plunge that your realize how accurate C9's advice is. I was a FRW for 3 years before finally splurging with a small deposit and played ONLY CC money added games. I probably could have joined other sites and played their games, but didn't. I did well turning that initial deposit of about $50 into over a grand in a year. I have now withdrawn about $500 and still have in the neighborhood of a grand scattered here and there. IT CAN BE DONE!
The difference in play between Freerolls and real money games can not be understood until you have played both. As a FRW, I stubbornly rejected the notion that there was that much difference. Now that I've seen both sides, believe me, there is that much difference, maybe even more.
However, the FRW path can work, but it could take forever.
It won't be till you make the plunge that your realize how accurate C9's advice is. I was a FRW for 3 years before finally splurging with a small deposit and played ONLY CC money added games. I probably could have joined other sites and played their games, but didn't. I did well turning that initial deposit of about $50 into over a grand in a year. I have now withdrawn about $500 and still have in the neighborhood of a grand scattered here and there. IT CAN BE DONE!
The difference in play between Freerolls and real money games can not be understood until you have played both. As a FRW, I stubbornly rejected the notion that there was that much difference. Now that I've seen both sides, believe me, there is that much difference, maybe even more.
However, the FRW path can work, but it could take forever.
Joe Slick
Rock Star
Silver Level
... not ENOUGH players
nevadanick
Back to work ... zzzzz
Silver Level
dj and c9's remarks are correct, but there is a different side too, imo.
I have never deposited online. (I'm retired and save my cash for live play here in NV). It has taken 8 months so far, but I have withdrawable cash on 2 sites, and small BR's on 2 more - all from (mostly forum) FR's, things like the Stars regionals, Stars Round 2 FR's, a few stud ring games (my preference) - AND - most important of all, good BR management.
I've played almost 2 years online. The first year bad BR management killed me. Win a few sheckles and run right off and blow them. I watched the Ferguson Challenge and decided in Feb that it was sound advice for starting from -0-.
Closely tied to BR management is patience and discipline. IMO, too many players that do win a few sheckles let them burn a quick hole in their pocket. Let those few sheckles build into something before you run right off to the micro NL tables and go bust - quick.
Without a doubt, it will be a long grind from -0-. Has been for me, but then, I have plenty of time to do that.
Playing online does take several strategies. DJ and c9 both say it is much different in FR and cash play. UMmmm, sort of. Between FR and micro stakes, about the same. Stars dimers and 25c MTT's are just like FR's. In the 50c and $1 Stars MTT's it starts to get 'a little' better. Tilt's rake is WAY too high until you do build a BR, or play the $1 daily Fergy with no rake. My online game is quite different than live play. It has to be - and I hate it. Hard to keep them separate.
A deposit is likely best for 'most' players, as they both suggest. I simply decided it was a personal challenge to see if I could do it. If you want instant gratification and big gains quick, make a deposit and try, but still stick with good BR management guidelines. If you don't have the funds for that, prepare yourself for a long, tedious grind. I don't fish or golf, so spending my time making small gains and letting them build works for me. 50c to $1 win for 3-4 hours in a FR would be considered a meager return, but I look at it as free money. Any losses I suffer online will never cost me more than time.
Now it's up to you. If going to another site that will front you $10 or so wiggles your crank - go for it. Deposit and play bigger if you think your game can stand the heat. If you have time and patience, -0- to ??? is quite possible. GL ...
I have never deposited online. (I'm retired and save my cash for live play here in NV). It has taken 8 months so far, but I have withdrawable cash on 2 sites, and small BR's on 2 more - all from (mostly forum) FR's, things like the Stars regionals, Stars Round 2 FR's, a few stud ring games (my preference) - AND - most important of all, good BR management.
I've played almost 2 years online. The first year bad BR management killed me. Win a few sheckles and run right off and blow them. I watched the Ferguson Challenge and decided in Feb that it was sound advice for starting from -0-.
Closely tied to BR management is patience and discipline. IMO, too many players that do win a few sheckles let them burn a quick hole in their pocket. Let those few sheckles build into something before you run right off to the micro NL tables and go bust - quick.
Without a doubt, it will be a long grind from -0-. Has been for me, but then, I have plenty of time to do that.
Playing online does take several strategies. DJ and c9 both say it is much different in FR and cash play. UMmmm, sort of. Between FR and micro stakes, about the same. Stars dimers and 25c MTT's are just like FR's. In the 50c and $1 Stars MTT's it starts to get 'a little' better. Tilt's rake is WAY too high until you do build a BR, or play the $1 daily Fergy with no rake. My online game is quite different than live play. It has to be - and I hate it. Hard to keep them separate.
A deposit is likely best for 'most' players, as they both suggest. I simply decided it was a personal challenge to see if I could do it. If you want instant gratification and big gains quick, make a deposit and try, but still stick with good BR management guidelines. If you don't have the funds for that, prepare yourself for a long, tedious grind. I don't fish or golf, so spending my time making small gains and letting them build works for me. 50c to $1 win for 3-4 hours in a FR would be considered a meager return, but I look at it as free money. Any losses I suffer online will never cost me more than time.
Now it's up to you. If going to another site that will front you $10 or so wiggles your crank - go for it. Deposit and play bigger if you think your game can stand the heat. If you have time and patience, -0- to ??? is quite possible. GL ...
L
lostcause
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I don't think it takes forever. I mean from $10 playing 25c 50c short handed limit holdem and then moving up when I had about 200-300bb I got up to 1800 in a month. So I don't think it will take forever. This is all from cash games. By month 2 I was up over 10k, although I won a seat to aruba and sold it so really would've only been at about 4k without that lucky event.
F
Freakakanus
Legend
Silver Level
I have never deposited online. (I'm retired and save my cash for live play here in NV).
Nick have you ever played the $10 rebuy at Cal-Neva on Saturday nights? There is one at 6pm and another at 10pm......
I have killed that game twice now..... I recommend it highly... and would love to play against you sometime......
nevadanick
Back to work ... zzzzz
Silver Level
Not there. Have played some at Circus and Atlantis, but heard Atlantis changed their room and schedule. I don't make it into Reno that often and usually during the week. We have 3 MTT's here in Fallon each week and live nlhe 5 nites a week.
I'll keep that in mind and let you know if I make it into Reno for an event.
J
jyow
Rock Star
Platinum Level
if you don't win any free money then how are you supposed to play without depositing and build a bankroll?
W
witl69
Rock Star
Silver Level
why dont you check the CC sections on bankroll bulding and management for ideas on how to build one .. i have personally never deposited no money in any sites i play at i started with freerolls then started my way up from there to small micro buy ins takes alot of work but it can be done
nevadanick
Back to work ... zzzzz
Silver Level
Good question. Leads to a different one... If you can't win anything in a FR (or don't have the patience), how would you win at higher stakes? If your game is good enough to win bigger stakes, then depositing would be a no-brainer, imo.
I would think any decent player could get ITM in FR's without too much trouble.
H
holdemteach1
Rising Star
Silver Level
pitbull
perhaps try pitbull poker. They have freerolls running every hour. top 18 are paid out and usually get approximately 500 entrants in each one. midday they get around 650. midnight they get around 350. 18/500 paid is about as good as you will find. They also have $0.50+$0.10 buy-in tournies and SnG's. Should be the easiest site in my opinion.
uvrayz
Rock Star
Silver Level
elaborate please
please elaborate on the playin freerolls will seriously harm your game and why. ive been thinkin it is makin me better and more patient?
nevadanick
Back to work ... zzzzz
Silver Level
Every player who goes back and forth from FR's and micro stakes, to larger buy-ins, to cash/ring games probably has an arsenal of various strategies. It gets more complicated if they also play live regularly. There are likely some who play the same game, no matter what.
Patience is good at any level, but it isn't the only factor. Whether FR's affect YOUR game is something only you would know after you've played in a number of them. FR's are a minefield, but even those change table to table. Sometimes there are loads of VERY loose players, sometimes it's a tighter table. You need to adjust your play in order to do well consistently.
If you cannot establish several play styles to use based on situation, position, reads and stacksize, FR's 'can' hurt you.
Chris Ferguson probably said it best in one of his Tips from the Pros on Full Tilt. "Before you worry about adjusting for tournaments, concentrate on adjusting for the other players. The most important skill in poker is the ability to react to a wide range of opponents playing a wide range of styles. Players who can do this will thrive in both ring games and tournaments alike."
Playing FR's may establish a specific play pattern for you that could be hard to change as the stakes, levels and the players change. Makes it harder to adjust when you move up in levels, imo, and start getting away from FR's.
S
sveta66
Rising Star
Silver Level
all i can say is try to play as many freerolls as possible and thats maybe the way you can built your bankroll. I would suggest you to go UltimateBet poker because they have a freeroll every hour so this site might really help you!
FatBasset
Rock Star
Silver Level
I guess the logic is that by playing to many freerolls you can't help but playing like a donkey. I admit more speculative hands when I play freerolls because I don't have anything invested or at risk. However, I don't believe I have permanently affected my ability to play real money tourneys and ring games by playing freerolls.
A
Adventurebound2
Legend
Silver Level
Doing an experiment at Carbon Poker. I signed up here and won 7 bucks at a CC sponsoered freeroll. Took that money and played some $2 Bounty STT"s and MTT's over the last few days. In the MTT's I've won one, second and third in two others and 11th in another, each game taking at least 5 bounties (over 20 bounties in 2 games)
If you're not familiar with a Bounty tourny, it's same as the rest except you earn money for each person you knock out. At a $2 bounty 1 dollar goes to the top payout places and the other dollar goes to your bounty. Even if you don't make the bubble you can make more than your entry on bounties alone fairly easy. The play is fairly loose at this stake level but will can sure build a BR fast to get you into higher mtt's where the play becomes much nicer.
Give it a try. Here's a link to Carbon Poker www.cardschat.com/sites/17.php Please use it to help support this site for all the good knowledge and assistance you get here.
If you're not familiar with a Bounty tourny, it's same as the rest except you earn money for each person you knock out. At a $2 bounty 1 dollar goes to the top payout places and the other dollar goes to your bounty. Even if you don't make the bubble you can make more than your entry on bounties alone fairly easy. The play is fairly loose at this stake level but will can sure build a BR fast to get you into higher mtt's where the play becomes much nicer.
Give it a try. Here's a link to Carbon Poker www.cardschat.com/sites/17.php Please use it to help support this site for all the good knowledge and assistance you get here.
NineLions
Advanced beginner
Silver Level
If you don't have "a game" because you're a beginner, it could cause you to develop bad habits/thinking/approaches to playing. C9 and dj have both been through that path, as have I, but I don't think that it needs to be a problem.
Ideally my "game" is geared toward my expectations and test results of my opponents, which means I play differently when I play the PokerStars Summer Games freerolls (easy $5, if they're still running) verses a CC freeroll verses $25NL or $50NL cash tables verses CC tournaments.
Pot odds are pot odds, structure is structure, but implied odds and busting mean different things in different situations.
If you're learning patience from freerolls, that's definitely a valuable lesson.
Supplement that with some analysis and then with comparison between what works or seems ideal in a freeroll verses what Harrington or people at CC feel is an ideal play against experienced opponents, and you'll be preparing yourself for the move to other games.
P
Playmaker
Enthusiast
Silver Level
Back in The Day I won 50 cents on a freeroll on Betus.poker and turned that into 235 dollars....Of course I still had to make a deposit into my account anyways before they Let me have any of it..But that was back when BetUspoker.com used Playtech software instead of the Cake software they use Now..
Of Course BetUs.com is known for Slowplayouts and it took me 6 weeks to get my first Payout and 2 Months to get my last Payout but thats another story...
When you get right down to it you are prob better off depositing a small amount of Money into your account and taking it from there
Of Course BetUs.com is known for Slowplayouts and it took me 6 weeks to get my first Payout and 2 Months to get my last Payout but thats another story...
When you get right down to it you are prob better off depositing a small amount of Money into your account and taking it from there
uvrayz
Rock Star
Silver Level
hey thanks alot im going to vegas next month and i plan on playin some tournaments nothing big just 20$ tourneys and maybe a couple 40$ rebuy tourneys but when i heard you say freerolls could affect my game i got a lil worried cuz ive been playin freerolls thinkin that it was improving my game gettin me ready for vegas and the last thing i would want to happen is play freerolls and come out a worse player. ive definetly got better to adjusting to players on the table especially in freerolls and i've found myself placing in a lot more butt anyway thanks for the advice i try to use any advice i get from this forum to my game.