FT does not investigate collusion in free/FTP games

I watched two players on Full Tilt openly involved in collusion the other day in one of the FTP tourneys. It was a low buy-in, but I guess they still consider it free money.

So beware if you are playing in the FTP tourneys. FT lets people cheat and get away with it. I'm not real proud of that. Here's the letter I received in response to my complaint.

Hello Donald,

Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.

We appreciate diligent players like you who report unethical play on our site.

We take collusion very seriously and investigate every report of collusion concerning our real money games. To ensure the integrity and security of our site, we must focus all of our investigative resources on our real money games. Unfortunately, we are unable to investigate concerns regarding collusion in freeroll tournaments or at play money tables.

Thank you again, and if you have any questions, please feel free to let us know.

Regards,

Tom
Poker Specialist
Full Tilt Poker Support

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LOL Good to know, anyone up for some collusion on the USA freeroll tonight?
JK

Why would they refer to "freeroll or play money" if it was low buy-in, and therefore presumably real money :questionm

Doesn't really make sense...

I meant low buy in of FTP's. Sorry bout that! It was only a 50 FTP tourney.

Damn that's not good
not good at all :S

Honestly I can understand their reluctance to devote time to investigating play in free games.

I will need to change your thread title as it is misleading.

IMHO, FTP's should be considered the same as real money. I got them by playing real money. But that's my take on it.

Edit: No problem on the title change though. I understand!

Anyone interested in a FT experiment?

Anyone want to have a buy-ingame where we all HONESTLY tell each other what our hole cards are in the chatbox? I Wonder what would hapen and I wonder if we'd get banned?

pkrplr4116 said:

Anyone want to have a buy-ingame where we all HONESTLY tell each other what our hole cards are in the chatbox? I Wonder what would hapen and I wonder if we'd get banned?

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i only play on ftp, i dont want to test them

I'd hate getting banned, too but what would happen in an open handed game, I wonder? Would people play as badly as they do when we don't know what they have?

pkrplr4116 said:

I'd hate getting banned, too but what would happen in an open handed game, I wonder? Would people play as badly as they do when we don't know what they have?

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LOL That would be a cool experiment! I would like to see that take place, but I think I would have to sit that one out. LOL

Well, playing "devils advocate", the amount of tournaments that go on while playing real money and the inquiries im sure that come along with those tourneys would make it a difficult task to keep up on everything for the FTP staff. So, save your points and buy some cool gear.

seriously, those FTP freerolls are almost as much of a joke as the 2700 player ones. people play so bad anyway, so if they're cheating it's not that big of a deal. play money is about the same too.

yeh i agree, collusion doesnt really work that well in those sorta stakes and i agree with the email

I did inform full tilt one time about a mtt tourney where a specific player obviously had several accounts set up and regestered in the same tourney.
I emailed them and there responce was they had handled the persons account.

hey man what really happend how did u no they cheatd?

I really think that we should always post cheating sites and players here. It will help everyone that comes to this iste-if you see someone sitting at a sng, you dont have to play if you know they have cheated before

pkrplr4116 said:

I'd hate getting banned, too but what would happen in an open handed game, I wonder?

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No river action ?

I kind of agree that it IS wrong they won't investigate when it's FTP but on the other hand I can imagine the amount of hands being played on the amount of tables they are hosting makes it quite impossible to police everything. I can easily understand why they concentrate their efforts on the cash sector.

If nothing else dg1267, if those 2 players ever migrate to cash/money games ( in fact they must already play for $$ as they have points ) and they try that sort of crap again and get reported, with any luck FTP will already have some info on them from your report.
Hopefully that will stand against them and they will be perm banned. So all is not lost and hopefully they will get what's coming.

Crystal Blue said:

If nothing else dg1267, if those 2 players ever migrate to cash/money games ( in fact they must already play for $$ as they have points ) and they try that sort of crap again and get reported, with any luck FTP will already have some info on them from your report.
Hopefully that will stand against them and they will be perm banned. So all is not lost and hopefully they will get what's coming.

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Doesn't sound like 'record keeping' on this is in their field of interest, so using the info in the future is unlikely.

I am stunned to learn this. To say: "we must focus all of our investigative resources on our real money games" is absolutely pathetic. Are they that poor that they cannot afford to provide sufficient staff to protect the entire 'integrity' of their site? Isn't providing proper security part of their obligation to ALL players on their site?

These players colluding at freereolls and ftp games are the SAME players that are trying to cheat their way into the REAL CASH GAMES. Is Full Tilt ignorant enough to believe that it stops with ftp, play $$ and freeroll games?

What is even more pathetic is that reading between the lines, Full Tilt's only reason for investigating cash game cheating is that once they confirm it, they close those accounts and KEEP THE CONFISCATED MONEY for themselves.

Integrity?? They have NONE - IMO !!!

nevadanick said:

Doesn't sound like 'record keeping' on this is in their field of interest, so using the info in the future is unlikely.

I am stunned to learn this. To say: "we must focus all of our investigative resources on our real money games" is absolutely pathetic. Are they that poor that they cannot afford to provide sufficient staff to protect the entire 'integrity' of their site? Isn't providing proper security part of their obligation to ALL players on their site?

These players colluding at freereolls and ftp games are the SAME players that are trying to cheat their way into the REAL CASH GAMES. Is Full Tilt ignorant enough to believe that it stops with ftp, play $$ and freeroll games?

What is even more pathetic is that reading between the lines, Full Tilt's only reason for investigating cash game cheating is that once they confirm it, they close those accounts and KEEP THE CONFISCATED MONEY for themselves.

Integrity?? They have NONE - IMO !!!

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I felt the same way. I honestly don't believe these two were regular friends. They seemed like they had just met. But they made friends quickly (being from the same country or speaking the same language) and then commenced to screwing the rest of the table.

I wasn't asking for anyone to be banned from the site, just to pass on a warning that if they get caught again they would be banned. This would usually be enough if they play there often.

dg1267 said:

I felt the same way. I honestly don't believe these two were regular friends. They seemed like they had just met. But they made friends quickly (being from the same country or speaking the same language) and then commenced to screwing the rest of the table.

I wasn't asking for anyone to be banned from the site, just to pass on a warning that if they get caught again they would be banned. This would usually be enough if they play there often.

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Cheaters are cheaters. No such thing as being a little bit pregnant.

Should a mugger only be penalized because they stole your jacket? Or do you wait for them to come back for your wallet?

From Full Tilt's main web page, two of their rules read:
1. Sportsmanlike conduct is expected of all users.
6. Soft playing or chip dumping is not allowed. Any unethical play may result in the suspension or termination of the offender's account.

Doesn't say a word about applying this to cash games only.

From their own webpage for the Full Tilt main poker site:

Our Pledge
* We designed full tilt poker to create the best online poker experience.
* We play and chat with players every day at all levels, even play money.
* We are always thinking of new ways to make you a better poker player.
* We are committed to having the safest, most secure online poker site.
* We want you to join our team.

Far as I know, dg is right. You only get FTP's by playing cash.

FTP games pay an entry to a cash tourney. Standard Freerolls pay in cash. What is "the safest, most secure online poker site" when they will not provide the security measures to back that up?

Shouldn't they have bots to protect against this type of stuff? It's not that hard to see collusion, especially since other players at the table can easily see it happening in all levels. MMOs use automated programs to find botters and farmers all the time, I don't know why FT just doesn't do the same.

Far as I know, dg is right. You only get FTP's by playing cash.

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Actually they do have some freerolls (like the old .net/.com tournies) where you can get FTP's by winning and unregistering from the tourney that you win into.

But, yeah, that's irrelevant. They should really look into any problem that they receive from a player.