Double or Nothings

If you are a decent player and feel you can top 5 often, are these tourneys a good way to build a bankroll?? Thanks

The rake is somewhat brutal. If you play the turbos it is 10% but if you play the regular games it is 15%. Both of these are lower than the $1.20 buy-in for a regular SnG but keep in mind that the max you can win is the $2 vs if you can finish first in the regular games top prize is $4.50

I have had limited success with the DoNs at PS but I am not sure if you want to try and build a roll with it.

How much is your roll at right now?

I wouldn't really say that if you're regularly getting into the top 5 in a regular SnG that it will be the same with a DoN. There is a whole different strategy that the regulars apply to them because the of the bubble.

I don't play these because I don't feel like they are worth the time unless you're mass-multi-tabling them, but one of the common things I see about them is that you will get a lot of people who will just basically shut down as soon as they get like 2500 chips because they feel like they can blind down and still make the money, these people you can steal from like crazy.

halftilting1 said:

hello whats up poker ppl...do i re`aallllly gotta post 65 posts to join full tilt freerolls

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Welcome to CC.. you will find more information in the freeroll section.

With regards to the OP, I found the double or nothings on Aced were a great way to build my roll.. I stuck to a certain strategy and placed in approximately 3 out of 4 of them.

Yes the rake is big, but if you are consistent it can be a profitable gametype to play.

Good Luck.

i read that DoN's attract colluders
at small stakes it's probably not worth there time
watch out at the higher stakes tho'
just be aware
good luck

I find that the majority of people, especially at the lower stakes will just sit back and hope that others will be eliminated, then when it gets close to the end and the blinds will be so high it will just be a matter of luck because everyone just starts going all in on every hand

Question?

tcummo said:

i read that DoN's attract colluders
at small stakes it's probably not worth there time
watch out at the higher stakes tho'
just be aware
good luck

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Why should one look out at the higher stakes.....collusion? Or, what. I have had some degree of sucess at $10 level, but have wondered about some of the play there cause it was questionable, I thought.

Wally

On pokerstars there have been a couple known collusion rings at the DoNs. I'm too lazy to look, but just google it and you'll find a lot about it.

i have played these double or nothing a few times. i find them very slow and a completely different way of playing. when it gets near the bubble thing come almost to a standstill. if you have the patience they may be a good way to build the bankroll but s + go's wud be my number one choice. best of luck anyways mate

You have to win 3 out of 5 to break even and are definately not getting the odds equivalent to the payoff. I've heard many a newb say it's a great way to build a bankroll. The math says otherwise, be smart and steer clear.

Pothole said:

You have to win 3 out of 5 to break even and are definately not getting the odds equivalent to the payoff. I've heard many a newb say it's a great way to build a bankroll. The math says otherwise, be smart and steer clear.

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^^^^^Exactly! When you're first looking at it, it looks like a great deal, but you're just not getting as much out of it as you think. Get better at turbo SnG's and they will take just about the same amount of time and when you're good enough to win consistently then you will be making quite a bit more than just double your buy-in minus rake...

Pothole said:

You have to win 3 out of 5 to break even and are definately not getting the odds equivalent to the payoff. I've heard many a newb say it's a great way to build a bankroll. The math says otherwise, be smart and steer clear.

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Pretty much this, plus the collusion factor. Most guys who profit off these are grinding huge volume, which doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun.

this sounds very risky. even if u are good, the fact is that u are 50-50 to win. i think best way to build the bankroll is still playing sit n go. u can grind the whole day and build ur BR to a whole new level

I agree with whats been said if your a decent player then why not play in normal sngs? Maybe if your gonna become a mass grind robot ata a certain level these can be good to go for supernova but if your starting out at the 1$ these are the pits and if your learning I feel they stunt your growth.

I used to play the $1.15 DON sng's at Stars. If you win 7 out of 10, your net profit is $2.50. That's $0.25 per tourney. Hardly worth it for almost an hour's work. And that's IF you cash 7/10. If you only cash 6/10, your profit is a nickel per tourney. If your roll is really low, though, and you need the pennies, it's probably not that bad of a gamble since it pays top 5 instead of top 3. There's a dude on Stars that made Supernova playing these exclusively. Imagine the volume!!!

The pros: If you can win 7+ out of 10 DONs, they can be profitable, if only slightly. They are relatively easy for me, so I like them when I need to build up my bankroll. Easy to multitable.

The cons: The rake at the lowest levels is brutal. Move up and they are colluder heaven. They are boring, boring, boring.

EDIT: Article on Chinese collusion ring: http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/pokerstars-responds-to-chinese-collusion-ring-scandal-14892/

personally i rather enjoy them.. The double ups might not always build you fast unless you never lose, but it does keep you entertained while not lossing too much.

I easily doubled my bank roll within a night

Chazilton said:

personally i rather enjoy them.. The double ups might not always build you fast unless you never lose, but it does keep you entertained while not lossing too much.

I easily doubled my bank roll within a night

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Was your bankroll $1 and you won 1 DoN?

absoluthamm said:

Was your bankroll $1 and you won 1 DoN?

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Although that was funny... no I tilted down to 8.33 then went up to over $16 that night.

chris640 said:

then when it gets close to the end and the blinds will be so high it will just be a matter of luck because everyone just starts going all in on every hand

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Actually.. near the end you will need to be shoving to stay in the game & also because the player your shoving into really shouldn't be calling due to the flat payout structure (depends on situation obviously).

As far as 'would they be profitable to build a bankroll for a newer player'? When DoNs were first introduced on the poker sites I'd say that 'yes', it'd be quite profitable then because there were so many bad players in them (ie. players who weren't making necessary adjustments with flat payout considerations). These days, they seem to have just a ton of regulars in them & I'd think that to be consistently profitable in them that you'd want to read up on DoN strategy including late game adjustments (also how important it is to play much tighter in early levels compared with a typical sng).
There are plenty of DoN articles around. I'd definitely read a few of them before taking a shot at them... including ICM calculations in situations that will come up in DoNs.
One of the good things about DoNs, the decisions are pretty much automatic so it is easy to multi-table them (once you know what you're doing).

If you're interested in some articles & are considering giving them a shot (even in the lowest of micros) you can shoot me a pm & I'll ship you an article.

Personally i am actually no good at DoNs because you have to use a totally different strategy to regular SnGs, i believe you need a very defensive strategy and only take small pots down when you have nuts etc. I believe its too time consuming for a less than 100% profit. If you are used to DoNs, try to bring more aggression into the game because its totally different once you play <5 players, but i believe it will be well worth your time to begin playing for the 50% of the total pot. I recommend $1 SnGs to start unless you're playing at partypoker because it is unbelievable for fish at $1 so play $3+. My 1st choice of rooms is now FTP with a wide variety of choice.

I dont recall Fullt tilt having double ups.. but i could be wrong... I would like to play there seeing how i never win on FTP. That would help me increase my BR.

at a rake of 10%, you have to win something like 11/20 of the time to break even. if you can keep yourself above that mark consistently, the odds say you'll build a bankroll. Of course, they won't say how long it'll take. multitabling them might be the way to go, but only if you can keep the win rate above the threshold.