Cure for Late Registration?

At my local Casino, the world famous Bicycle Casino, they have a tourney structure that they call the Quantum Reload;

http://www.thebike.com/pdf/tournaments_daily/Quantum%20Reload%205pm%20updated4.pdf

Session A and B are the same tourney! If you get there early, you can play Session A on the cheap. You can show up late for Session B, and when you time it right, you can late register for a bigger buy-in, but you buy more chips. There is no devaluation of the value of a chip.

All online structures with Late Registration are flawed in that for the most part, at the latest registration, you only have 1 bet. That soon discourages LR. with the quantum structure, that penalty is not so severe.

At the beginning of every tourney, we all start with the average stack. Currently late registration offers us the opportunity to buy-in at a severely crippled stack. If the opportunity existed to LR and get (guessing) 40% of average, I know I would be more likely to buy in late. Would you?

Online sites with LR should investigate how they can improve the late registration experience. The Quantum Reload model offers some ideas. I would think that if there are 3 hours of later registration, then 3 tiers of increased buy-in cost (meaning bigger starting stack) would be a good thing.

Guess it is a better system but way too complicated for new players

The late registration looks good for the tournament, but it's not really that great.

Session A is $30 (-rake) for 5K in chips, which is ~.006 per chip. Session B is the same value for the first 5K at ~.006 per chip, but then it cost $20 for 2K in chips, which cost .01 per chip or a 60% increase in the price per chip. On top of that, you're only getting a 40% increase to your stack.

If we look value of chips per $1, $30 for 5K chips is ~165 chips per $1. $20 for 2K chips is 100 chips per $1 or -65 chips less per $1.

If you look at the blind structures, by the time session A ends and session B starts, blinds are at 75/150. Lets say you still have your session A 5K stack, you're sitting on ~33BBs. $30 for 33BBs is $1.1 per BB. If you buy-in at the start of session B, you sit with a 7K stack or ~46BBs, an increase of 13BBs for $20 or $1.50 per BB. So, you're paying .40 more for less chips. Depending on when you register for session B, you could be paying between .40-.80 more per BB.

It does look nice to get extra chips for a little extra money, but I don't think it's worth it when you're paying more for less chips overall. Maybe it's just me, but picking up an extra 10-13 BB isn't really worth the price. I think if you were looking to late register, your best option would be to try and get in right before session A ends. 33BBs is plenty to play and build a stack with. Now, if the chip value = the price and you were getting a 20BB increase, then I can see buying into session B.

As far as online late registration goes, I think it's fine and they don't need to change it. It's up to the players to see how deep into the tournament it is, how many BBs they're buying in for, and if they want to play it. Decent players might look at a bad late registration session and decide it's not worth it and recreational players might not even care and jump in with a 3K stack and blinds at 400/800. I have no problem if they do this. In fact, I take a lot of advantage of late registration and like to register when my stack to BB is ~25+. I just get shove happy with a strong and hope to double up. If I do, I'm likely to run deep and if I don't, I saved a lot of time. Is it the best strategy? No, but it works for me.

I play on Carbon, though and I'm not sure if late registration is different for where you play.

I had WPN in mind when I posted this. They have 3 hour LR, and at the last level the buy in is barely covering the blind (singular BB). Only someone in a panic would LR. But often there is a large Add-On, and getting that big AO is a reason some do LR.

They have not done a good job of describing (in print) that Quantum Structure. In practice it works much better than the way it reads. I originally read it and was confused. Then I played a few, and figured out it was much better.

The quantum structure's best attribute is that is does not discourage LR to the extent that any current OLP structure does.

Some variation of it would do WPN (in particular) well to incorporate in their tourneys. They run a lot of overlay tourneys, and I always worry about them promo'ing themselves into oblivion.

Wow it sounds good at first. But now that i think about it you have devalued the time spend by ppl that started play at the beginning it seems but i could be wrong. I just wonder whats wrong with being on time in the first place. Its like a late fee should be added just like paying bills. If your late you should pay more. But i see your point but how and why did the late registration start was it to increase the pool which is nice for the players or for the house to make more rake at any cost to the players. Dont get me wrong i have used late entry and was glad it was offered. Now in the big picture of things i guess its all about value. Im just a little confused i guess thanks for the mind tick i will be going over this all day now lol.

If we make the assumption the LR as we see it now at all sites is a double edged sword, and that swords double edges are not equal, and we want to figure out how to make them more equal, then something like that Quantum structure can offer the seeds of new ideas.

The edges of that sword are that the early registration is cheaper and the prize pool will grow bigger, while the other edge is the opportunity to LR and avoid some early game shenanigans.

Temper those player related concerns with the site related concerns; namely the opportunity to promote bigger games.

As a player I have seen both sides of that sword, and I occasionally LR, but I look at the numbers before I LR, so for instance I won't LR if the best I can get is 10 BB. The sites current solution to that is often the re-buy. I take that into account also. The sites counter solution to my (our considerations) is the huge add-on. Huge adds-ons are serious mind ****s! All of a sudden we can get back in the game in a serious way and have some sort of feel for the tempo and pace of the game. Not to mention that we would have numbers on the players at our tables.

The Quantum structure (or some variation on it) might alleviate some of those game changing aspects of LR yet still encourage LR to a point where the guarantees get made regularly And while I appreciate the games where there is a big overlay, I understand that it should not be a regular occurrence. Not good for the sites, and thus not good in the long run for us.

Incidentally, those Quantum Reload tourneys usually beat the guarantees by a 2X factor. That does not happen online!

And again, I am not trying to promote that Quantum game, only trying to find a LR solution that is good for everyone.

dj11 said:

I had WPN in mind when I posted this. They have 3 hour LR, and at the last level the buy in is barely covering the blind (singular BB). Only someone in a panic would LR. But often there is a large Add-On, and getting that big AO is a reason some do LR.

They have not done a good job of describing (in print) that Quantum Structure. In practice it works much better than the way it reads. I originally read it and was confused. Then I played a few, and figured out it was much better.

The quantum structure's best attribute is that is does not discourage LR to the extent that any current OLP structure does.

Some variation of it would do WPN (in particular) well to incorporate in their tourneys. They run a lot of overlay tourneys, and I always worry about them promo'ing themselves into oblivion.

Click to expand...

Good day,

I appreciate your bringing this great idea up,

I have sent this suggestion to our Management team for them to look into this information.

Do not forget to also check on our gone in 60 minutes tourneys here

Thank you!

Glad you found this ACRrep, I was eventually going to post the reference in the ACR thread.

There is a possibility that the Quantum structure is patented. I think the Bicycle Casino are not the folks who came up with the idea, but realized it's value. I can't remember where I got the notion of it being patented. If I remember I will find it and post it. I played my first one over a year ago, and in the beginning I was confused, and so read everything I could about it. Probably read something then that gave me that notion.