Bovada anonymity

ScooperNova

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I have a theory on why an overwhelming number of poker players suggest Bovada as the best current option for US players. There are some obvious reasons people choose Bovada, mainly traffic in both tourneys and cash games. The variety and sheer number of MTTs blows everything away hands down. I also hear people have good experiences with cashouts.

The possibly controversial part of my theory involves anonymity. I think some may secretly, or even unwittingly thrive on the anonymity. When you think about it, the fact that every player is a new player makes it an entirely different game. You can literally play the exact same way every time in short sessions with no one the wiser. Long sessions are rare. There are no lasting notes, and no memory. I think this can give some players an advantage, and aggression becomes even more important. The need to adapt, as you must do in in any non-anonymous(?) game, like live play, or any site with a screenname), is rendered nearly useless. I could expound on this even further, but I'm saving you from a Wall O' Text that may reduce into blathering.

I would also like to add that I feel like non-anonymous poker is a more complex game and therefore better suited for better poker players. In most situations where there is a name, or a face and a name, you will see some the the same players. Adapting play to overcome known opponents is, in my opinion, part of the true essence of poker. It also gives better players opportunities to exploit weaknesses that can ONLY be found over time.

I do know there are many great players on Bovada, and even more horrible ones. I'm not taking shots at anyone for liking Bovada by saying it's not ideal for good players. Many good players play there and love it. I'm not a fan, but I understand some people make a living playing on there and that's great. I'll save my Bovada bashing for the appropriate threads. If you like the anonymity of Bovada, that is a completely understandable stance and again, Bovada has it's share of great players and sharks. I do mean the part about better players and the essence of poker though.

Thanks, and any opinions are appreciated.


Good Luck at the Tables,
ScooperNova
 
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thetick33

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i totally am against the anonymity part cause am a note taker and like to know what someone is doing play wise so can only use notes for say a final table I have spoken with them but they dont listen
 
ScooperNova

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Thanks for the reply thetick33. I'm a little surprised more people haven't been interested in this topic and had an opinion.
 
ScooperNova

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I'm sure there are many players who like anonymity because it saves them embarassment.
 
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i totally am against the anonymity part cause am a note taker and like to know what someone is doing play wise so can only use notes for say a final table I have spoken with them but they dont listen

Why would Bovada care about you or your opinions?

They made a business decision to protect the recreational poker player, and (like it or not) that decision has paid off for them.

-HooDooKoo
 
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I have a theory on why an overwhelming number of poker players suggest Bovada as the best current option for US players. There are some obvious reasons people choose Bovada, mainly traffic in both tourneys and cash games. The variety and sheer number of MTTs blows everything away hands down. I also hear people have good experiences with cashouts.


I would also like to add that I feel like non-anonymous poker is a more complex game and therefore better suited for better poker players. In most situations where there is a name, or a face and a name, you will see some the the same players. Adapting play to overcome known opponents is, in my opinion, part of the true essence of poker. It also gives better players opportunities to exploit weaknesses that can ONLY be found over time.

I do know there are many great players on Bovada, and even more horrible ones. I'm not taking shots at anyone for liking Bovada by saying it's not ideal for good players. Many good players play there and love it. I'm not a fan, but I understand some people make a living playing on there and that's great. I'll save my Bovada bashing for the appropriate threads. If you like the anonymity of Bovada, that is a completely understandable stance and again, Bovada has it's share of great players and sharks. I do mean the part about better players and the essence of poker though.

Thanks, and any opinions are appreciated.


Good Luck at the Tables,
ScooperNova

The majority of US players recommend Bovada because of the amount of traffic (which offers a much wider variety of active games than most US-facing sites) and the quick payouts.

"IMO, the player anonymity at Bovada is a non-factor with regard to players recommending Bovada. Sure, some players (mostly fish) probably like the anonymity --- and those players might recommend playing there because of it (although I've NEVER seen a recommendation for playing at Bovada citing the anonymity as a reason for playing there).

Other players (like me) dislike the anonymity --- but I still play there and recommend that other US players play there because of the traffic and payout speeds. The factors in favor of playing at Bovada vastly outweigh the single detractor from playing at Bovada --- which is why the traffic there is so healthy compared to other US facing sites."
End of story.

-HooDooKoo

P.S. I don't think there is anything remotely interesting about this topic --- and the lack of replies suggests that most people agree with me.
 
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ScooperNova

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The majority of US players recommend Bovada because of the amount of traffic (which offers a much wider variety of active games than most US-facing sites) and the quick payouts.

The anonymity is a non-factor because for every 10 players that like the anonymity, there are 10 players (like me) that dislike. Despite my dislike of the anonymity, I play there because the pros (relative to other US facing sites) vastly outweigh the cons.

End of story.

-HooDooKoo

P.S. I don't think there is anything remotely interesting about this topic --- and the lack of replies suggests that most people agree with me.

It very short-sighted to think anonymity doesn't change the game. It takes a simple mind to see it that way for sure. I do thank you however for taking many things I said and repeating them in your post. That really added to the discussion and gave you some good filler.
 
ScooperNova

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Why would Bovada care about you or your opinions?

They made a business decision to protect the recreational poker player, and (like it or not) that decision has paid off for them.

-HooDooKoo

We're sorry, we did not realize this was the Bovada feedback forum. I care about his opinion and don't really appreciate butt heads like you crapping in my threads. Are you a corporate lackey, or are you one of the embarassed anonymous? You're opinion is welcome here, but your douchebaggery is not.
 
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It very short-sighted to think anonymity doesn't change the game. It takes a simple mind to see it that way for sure. I do thank you however for taking many things I said and repeating them in your post. That really added to the discussion and gave you some good filler.

1. Yep, I'm simple-minded. Read more of my posts for clearer evidence of that.

2. Where did I say that the anonymity doesn't change the game? I simply said that an equal number of people like it and dislike it.

Please correct your reading comprehension issues before you start insulting me. Thanks.

-HooDooKoo
 
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HooDooKoo

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We're sorry, we did not realize this was the Bovada feedback forum. I care about his opinion and don't really appreciate butt heads like you crapping in my threads. Are you a corporate lackey, or are you one of the embarassed anonymous? You're opinion is welcome here, but your douchebaggery is not.

OMFG, are you really this dense?

1. The poker screen names at other sites don't actually identify players (unless they use their real name, which is pretty rare), so why would ANYONE EVER be embarrassed by their play online? Additionally, some sites allow player to change their screen names --- which would make any "embarrassment" very fleeting.

2. I'm an online pro. That's right, I make my living playing poker. So I'm pretty sure that my play wouldn't embarrass anyone. Ever.

3. I'm fine with thetick33, or anyone else, posting his opinion about Bovada's anonymity in this (or any) thread. What I don't understand is why thetick33 thought BOVADA would care about his opinion. When they made the change to go anonymous, they knew that some people would like it and that others would not. If Bovada had cared about poker player's opinions, they would never had made the change to anonymity in the first place. They chose to protect their sports betting clients (who are, generally, recreational poker players) and knew what they were doing --- so his feedback was a waste of time. That is all.

-HooDooKoo
 
ScooperNova

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OMFG, are you really this dense?

1. The poker screen names at other sites don't actually identify players (unless they use their real name, which is pretty rare), so why would ANYONE EVER be embarrassed by their play online? Additionally, some sites allow player to change their screen names --- which would make any "embarrassment" very fleeting.

2. I'm an online pro. That's right, I make my living playing poker. So I'm pretty sure that my play wouldn't embarrass anyone. Ever.

3. I'm fine with thetick33, or anyone else, posting his opinion about Bovada's anonymity in this (or any) thread. What I don't understand is why thetick33 thought BOVADA would care about his opinion. When they made the change to go anonymous, they knew that some people would like it and that others would not. If Bovada had cared about poker player's opinions, they would never had made the change to anonymity in the first place. They chose to protect their sports betting clients (who are, generally, recreational poker players) and knew what they were doing --- so his feedback was a waste of time. That is all.

-HooDooKoo

1. No reputable site allows screenname changes. People with screennames are more embarassed because they can be identified as the same player. Then they can exploited.

2. High five! You're still a butt head.

3. Thetick didn't think Bovada cared about his opinion, it was one of your false assumptions. This thread isn't a Bovada customer survey. Perhaps you should take your own advice and work on your reading comprehension before you attack others.

Again, your opinions on anonymity and how it affects the game are welcome, but you're being a turd and making irrelevant points. I KNOW some people like anonymity and some don't. Did you read anything I said? How about the part about a lot of good players on Bovada? Don't get your panties in a bunch.
 
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1. No reputable site allows screenname changes. People with screennames are more embarassed because they can be identified as the same player. Then they can exploited.

2. High five! You're still a butt head.

3. Thetick didn't think Bovada cared about his opinion, it was one of your false assumptions. This thread isn't a Bovada customer survey. Perhaps you should take your own advice and work on your reading comprehension before you attack others.

Again, your opinions on anonymity and how it affects the game are welcome, but you're being a turd and making irrelevant points. I KNOW some people like anonymity and some don't. Did you read anything I said? How about the part about a lot of good players on Bovada? Don't get your panties in a bunch.

1. Both Cake Poker and party poker allow screen name changes.

2. I exploit players at Bovada without screen names. If you need a screen name to exploit players then you have a lot to learn about the game.

3. If thetick33 didn't think Bovada cared about his opinion, then why would he offer it? NO ONE offers their opinion if they think it's pointless --- that's just wasted effort/energy.

4. You don't get to moderate this thread, so I can and will post what I want. Thanks.

Most importantly, going back to your original post, anonymity doesn't make bad players better. They still give their money away in the long term. It's harder to identify and target them, so the process is slower, but it still happens.

Do you really think that consistent losing players are recommending the sites where they're donating money? A few, maybe. In general, definitely not. Instead, they're posting online about how Bovada poker is rigged. After all, a huge percentage of losing players think they're losing because they're running bad or because the RNGs are rigged. Nearly everyone playing online thinks they're good at poker, and few people have the objectivity or the analytical skills/tools to properly evaluate their play --- so they blame their losses on bad luck or rigging. They spend their energy tilting at that windmill, not recommending the sites that are "cheating" them.

Your assertion that non-anonymous poker is more complex than non-anonymous poker is also utter nonsense. They are just different. Anonymous poker requires keener observation/pattern recognition because you don't have a HUD to do that for you. Non-anonymous poker requires more leveling and range balancing. One isn't more complex than the other, they are just different. Bovada may well be SOFTER than most online sites because they cater to recreational players, but the game isn't any less complex.

I read --- and understood --- everything that you wrote (not said). I just don't agree with much of it. That doesn't make me simple-minded, or a butthead --- regardless what you think.

-HooDooKoo
 
ScooperNova

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"Why would Bovada care about you or your opinions?"

What you said to thetick here is why you're a butt head.

"3. If thetick33 didn't think Bovada cared about his opinion, then why would he offer it? NO ONE offers their opinion if they think it's pointless --- that's just wasted effort/energy."

You're not getting it. At all. This is a forum for poker fans to discuss their opinions. It's what we were doing. Is it still hard to understand why one poker fan would offer his opinion to another poker fan on an online poker forum when the other poker fan asked for it? I hope that clears it up for you.
 
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As much as you want to know who you are playing against everyonehas the same advantage, and I am going to be switching from WInning network to bovada and full flush, because winning network is not running smoothly, and hopefully it gets fixed will give it another month but that is it...
 
ScooperNova

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It's easier to hide your leaks and tendencies from good players if you're anonymous.
 
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"Why would Bovada care about you or your opinions?"

What you said to thetick here is why you're a butt head.

"3. If thetick33 didn't think Bovada cared about his opinion, then why would he offer it? NO ONE offers their opinion if they think it's pointless --- that's just wasted effort/energy."

You're not getting it. At all. This is a forum for poker fans to discuss their opinions. It's what we were doing. Is it still hard to understand why one poker fan would offer his opinion to another poker fan on an online poker forum when the other poker fan asked for it? I hope that clears it up for you.

First of all, I totally get it.

Second, we're all adults here. You can call me an asshole if you want. I promise I won't be offended.

And third, I'm doing exactly what you said is OK: I'm expressing my opinion. My opinion is that your opinion about the potential benefits of the anonymity of poker at Bovada is: incorrect at best, and absurd at worst. That is my opinion. Thank you for expressly allowing it.

-HooDooKoo
 
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ScooperNova

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First of all, I totally get it.

Second, we're all adults here. You can call me an asshole if you want. I promise I won't be offended.

And third, I'm doing exactly what you said is OK: I'm expressing my opinion. My opinion is that your opinion about the potential benefits of the anonymity of poker at Bovada is: incorrect at best, and absurd at worst. That is my opinion. Thank you for expressly allowing it.

-HooDooKoo

You're welcome bro. Y u mad?

Here is what you said to thetick "Why would Bovada care about you or your opinions?" Here is what you said in this post regarding your own posting "And third, I'm doing exactly what you said is OK: I'm expressing my opinion. My opinion is that your opinion about the potential benefits of the anonymity of poker at Bovada is: incorrect at best, and absurd at worst. That is my opinion. Thank you for expressly allowing it."

So, I'm glad you changed your mind about expressing opinions in this thread.
 
ScooperNova

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I think anonymous online poker is as different from screen name poker as online poker is from live poker.
 
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HooDooKoo

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You're welcome bro. Y u mad?

Here is what you said to thetick "Why would Bovada care about you or your opinions?" Here is what you said in this post regarding your own posting "And third, I'm doing exactly what you said is OK: I'm expressing my opinion. My opinion is that your opinion about the potential benefits of the anonymity of poker at Bovada is: incorrect at best, and absurd at worst. That is my opinion. Thank you for expressly allowing it."

So, I'm glad you changed your mind about expressing opinions in this thread.

I'm not mad. I'm just frustrated by your lack of comprehension. You see, you are missing one important point in this discussion, so I'm going to explain this further for you.

I am completely fine with thetick33 expressing his/her opinion about the anonymity of Bovada (or any other opinion he/she might have) in this thread (or anywhere else on the internet). Sharing his/her opinion about Bovada's anonymity DIRECTLY WITH BOVADA, HOWEVER, was an obvious waste of time.

You may care about thetick33's opinion about Bovada's anonymity. Others here at CC may care about thetick33's opinion about Bovada's anonymity. But BOVADA doesn't care about thetick33's opinion about its anonymity, and Bovada made that very clear when it switched from non-anonymous poker to anonymous poker. The switch was made to protect Bovada's recreational poker players from their most experienced/knowledgeable poker players, the vast majority of whom opposed the switch and told Bovada that they didn't like the idea of anonymous poker. Bovada made the switch anyway, demonstrating conclusively that they didn't care about the preference of the poker regs --- thetick33 included --- with regard to site anonymity. I already said all this in post number 10, but you clearly haven't absorbed it --- so I'm stating it again.

In summary, thetick33 expressing his opinion about Bovada anonymity here = fine. thetick33 expressing his opinion about Bovada's anonymity TO BOVADA = pointless, and a waste of time.

Are you with me (figuratively) now?

-HooDooKoo
 
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I think anonymous online poker is as different from screen name poker as online poker is from live poker.

Anonymous online poker is, conceptually, exactly the same as live poker with a group of people you've never played poker with before --- just with faster play because the card-dealing and chip-handling is virtual.

Screen name poker is, conceptually, exactly the same as live poker with people you have a history with --- once again with faster play.

More generally, online poker is, conceptually, exactly the same as live poker --- just with faster play. The only material differences --- other than speed of play --- between online play and live play are:

1. The vastly different skill level between comparable stakes live and online, with the online skill-level at comparable stakes being much higher than the live counterpart;

and 2. The opportunity to make live reads during live poker.

These two differences don't make the games any different conceptually, but they do change the optimal skillset for live vs. online play.

-HooDooKoo
 
ScooperNova

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I think I'm with you now except the part where you had to be a turd and insult my comprehension. Other than that, the last two posts were well written opinions. I have to disagree with some of your conclusions on the differences between online and live poker, and also in regards to anonymity.
 
ScooperNova

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Fact-The need to adapt your play over time at anonymous tables is nearly non-existent relative to playing with known opponents. The ability to adapt to known players is very high on the list of skills for great players.
 
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"Long sessions are rare." This is from the first post. I'll amend that now to long sessions are definitely rarer.

Also, on a related, but lesser prevalent difference in known player vs anonymous poker, I also postulate that hit n runs are more frequent. Hitting and running always has been viewed as poor poker etiquette by a majority of players. I've done it online, but it is rare. I have never hit and ran in a live poker game. The stigma associated with this practice is non-existent when when playing anonymous

What does anyone think? I would especially value an insult-free HooDooKoo opinion. I diplomatically withheld insult, just in case you didn't notice :).

Bovada as a destination for US players

HooDooKoo,
I understand, you like Bovada. I can see why many people do. I did say in the first post that there are "obvious" reasons players choose Bovada, and listed the ones that you reiterated later. A few things that you didn't mention in the defense of Bovada, that I would add and also mentioned earlier are -- (1)the variety of tournaments (2) the convenience and ease of registration, and (3) the timeliness and frequency of MTTs. It is VERY easy to see why a mostly MTT player would choose them or anyone else for that matter, including almost exclusively cash game players like myself.

I'll mention this again because it is at least in the top 3 and likely the #1 reason for US players to choose a site right now-- Traffic is key for tourney or cash game players.

Sometimes I wonder if the rift in opinion on Bovada is more of a cash game vs MTT/SNG player thing than anything else.
 
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I think I'm with you now except the part where you had to be a turd and insult my comprehension. Other than that, the last two posts were well written opinions. I have to disagree with some of your conclusions on the differences between online and live poker, and also in regards to anonymity.

I only insulted your comprehension because it took my saying the same thing three times for you to understand what I meant. And if you look back though this thread from the beginning, you'll realize that you cast the first insult (calling me simple-minded).

Regardless, I'm glad that you understand where I'm coming from now, even if you have different opinions of the differences between online and live poker and/or the impact of anonymity on poker.

-HooDooKoo
 
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Fact-The need to adapt your play over time at anonymous tables is nearly non-existent relative to playing with known opponents. The ability to adapt to known players is very high on the list of skills for great players.

Even if the "fact" above is true, it rarely matters.

1. Why are you making generalizations about poker and backing them with characteristics of GREAT players? What percentage of poker players are great? 1%? Let's accept 1% for ease of discussion. Oh no, anonymous poker penalizes the best 1% of poker players. Dear God, that makes it not poker anymore!

Most online players (90-95%) are losing players. Those people aren't winning no matter what they do. All of their playing styles (assuming that they have more than one) are losers, so I don't care what style they are playing and I certainly don't have to worry about them adapting to my style(s). I don't need a HUD to beat them. I barely have to pay attention to them. They play. They donate. Hopefully they re-buy. End of story.

2. When I play online poker with screen names, I try not to sit with people that are very familiar with my game unless I know they are fish. Table selection is an important part of poker with screen names. I'm not sitting with other solid regs or pros if I can help it. So I rarely have to adapt my game playing screen name poker, unless I'm playing heads-up.

3. At Bovada, if I sit at a table that doesn't have exploitable players, I leave and find another table. It's really that simple. Sure, I can't use a HUD to help me decide if there are exploitable players present, but I can generally tell what I'm up against within 20 hands or so. When I like what I see, I stay. When I don't, I move. This would be little different for me playing screen name poker.

While there is some truth to your assertions, you have radically overestimated their impact/importance for 99% of all players --- and we really don't have to worry about the other 1%. They are going to be fine no matter what online sites do.

-HooDooKoo
 
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