BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (&cliff notes)

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Greg242

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Hello cardschat, I realized this is my first post on this forum but I have also posted this on 2+2 were I am more well know, and on sports book review (SBR) and pocket 5s as well. Here are the links to those posts http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28...s-end-1127225/ and http://forum.sbrforum.com/sportsbook...notes-end.html and http://www.pocketfives.com/f10017/be...es-end-652171/.

BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)
My name is Greg and I have been a professional poker player for about 2 years. I play mid and high stakes nl holdem (600nl-5000nl mostly) across some of the few sites that are left for American players to play on. I decided to try playing on BetOnline after I had seen them advertising on a few poker related websites and saw that they accept US players. I also checked and saw that they had a B+ rating on sportsbookreview.com which unfortunately instilled confidence in my decision to play on their site.

I made a deposit of $1200 on their site via MoneyGram around the 13th of October. I started off playing 1000nl because I only had $1200 on the site to begin with, and ran well in the beginning building a nice roll pretty quickly. My first experience with the poker room was positive even though the software sucks horribly and is very slow. There was a rare few times when I was multi tabling I would time out due to the lag and timing out on their site leads to your hand being mucked which is annoying. There was a hand where there software glitched and for some reason mucked my hand on the river when I had the nuts. I immediately emailed support and within a few days I was refunded the pot which boosted my confidence even more about the site. Over about the course of a month I played 1000nl-10000nl on the site and had a little over $65,000 by the time I decided to request my first withdrawal. The games on the site were super soft for the stakes they were at, and I did of course run pretty well also.

When I attempted to make my first withdrawal the first of the many excuses and my problems occurred. I have laid out step by step exactly what happened and unfortunately the truth is BetOnline is trying to steal the $65,000 in my account from me. You will see all of the excuses they have given to not pay me, and their final claim is that I chip dumped after earlier saying that my poker account had been reviewed and everything was fine and I was clear to withdrawal. I want to make it 100% clear that I have never chip dumped or cheated in any way, shape, or form on BetOnline or any site ever. I have done absolutely nothing wrong and BetOnline is absolutely is trying to steal $65,000 from me.

(BetOnline’s maximum wire withdrawal at one time is $15,000 that is why all my requests were for $15,000.)

1) My original bank wire request of $15,000 was on November 4, 2011 on a Friday. I checked on Monday to see if it had been processed, it said it had been cancelled. I immediately went on LiveChat on November 7, 2011 at 1:48 PM EST and spoke with Tristan. He told me that my bank wire had been cancelled because my account was being reviewed by the Poker Department. Tristan said I would need to speak with the Poker Manager, but he was not in at that time. I told Tristan I would check back later to see if the Poker Manager was available.

2) Later on November 7, 2011 at 6:34 PM EST I spoke with Christine in LiveChat to check to see if the Poker Manager was in yet. She said he still was not, and she recommended that I call 1-888-426-3661 because for these issues speaking on the phone is better. I said OK.

3) I proceeded to call the number and spoke with Charlie. He told me that the Poker Manager WAS IN, but does not speak with players which is a direct contradiction to both Tristan’s and Christine’s instructions. After arguing and attempting to try and talk to the manager I reluctantly said OK. Charlie said to give it 24-36 hours and BetOnline would either e-mail or call me to notify me when my account’s review was over.

4) On November 9, 2011 I still had not heard back from BetOnline about my account’s review status. I went onto LiveChat at 1:59 PM EST and spoke with J.D. J.D told me that my account HAD BEEN VERIFIED AND EVERYTHING WAS FINE, and it was OK to request a new payout. I asked when the account review had been completed and was told “yesterday” which would have been November 8, 2011.

5) Later on November 9, 2011 I requested another $15,000 bank wire withdrawal. When I checked the morning of November 10, 2011 to see if it had been processed it said it had been declined due to me not meeting my rollover requirement. It said that in order to meet the rollover requirement I had to wager $1222.80 in the SportsBook. First of all, there should not be a rollover requirement because I received no bonuses at all when making my deposit. Out of frustration, on November 10, 2011 I did not fight this ruling (at this point I just wanted to be able to withdrawal my winnings) and proceeded to wager $1300 in the SportsBook on an ATP tennis match.

6) After making this wager to satisfy this requirement, on November 10, 2011 I requested another $15,000 bank wire withdrawal. When I tried logging into my poker account later on November 10, 2011 it said my account had been temporarily disabled.

7) On November 11, 2011 at 1:51 AM EST I went into LiveChat to find out why my account had been suspended. I could not believe this had happened when my account had just been reviewed and successfully verified, and I had been told that I was clear to request a new payout. I then went into LiveChat at 2:02 AM EST and spoke with Al. He told me that there were no supervisors on the floor at that time and he had no idea why my account had been suspended again.

8) On November 11, 2011 at 6:27 PM EST I went into LiveChat to again try to speak to a supervisor to find out why my account has been suspended. I spoke with Chandler and after demanding to speak with a supervisor multiple times and being denied, he informed me that my account had been suspended due to chip dumping. This is completely ridiculous and a lie. It is even more insane that they claim I chip dumped after I had been told by J.D. on November 9, 2011 that my account had been reviewed by the poker department and everything was fine.

9) At this point I decided to send an email to BetOnline on November 12th, 2011 demanding it go straight to management, explaining exactly what had happened to me like I did above and showing them how they are clearly attempting not to pay me and are trying to scam me. I told them that if they did not resolve this or at least investigate it further by November 16, 2011 that I was going public with what happened to me. I got a email back saying that my email was being sent to management but never got a response back after that.

10) On November 15, 2011 I re sent the same email I sent to them on November 12th, 2011 and got a response saying that my account had been reviewed and “chip dumping was detected and confirmed”. I responded requesting all hand histories of every hand I had ever played on the site. I got a response back saying “the complete hand history is too massive for it to be sent. But I will personally send you the hands in which you were found cheating. If that is ok with you.” I responded ok please send me the hand histories were I was “cheating”. I received no response and sent another email requesting these hand histories. I have not heard back since and have not received any hand histories.

Unfortunately at this point I have no choice but to go public with what has happened to me. Again, I have never chip dumped or cheated on BetOnline or any site before ever. I am more than happy and would be ecstatic to have all the hand histories reviewed by someone outside of BetOnline. I am hoping that someone like NoahSD can do this for me if they finally send me the hand histories. Unfortunately I have a feeling that they will not release any hand histories because they know they are scamming me and it is their final excuse not to pay.

I will be posting this everywhere I can and will be filing a report out with sportsbookreview also. I will not give up until I am paid by BetOnline or they are out of business.

I also have all transcripts from every LIVECHAT and every email saved. I have proof of them claiming my account had been cleared and I could now request a new payout, and then after that and going through the rollover excuse, they come back again and claim that I chip dumped.

CLIFF NOTES:

1. Deposit $1200 on Betonline in early October and run it up to a little over $65,000 playing 1000nl-10000nl.

2. Request $15,000 bank wire withdrawal (there max withdrawal per time is $15,000 via BW) on November 4th, 2011 and it is declined due to my poker account being reviewed.

3. I Go on LiveChat on November 9, 2011 and JD informs me my account has been reviewed and verified and I can now request another withdrawal.

4. I request another $15,000 bank wire on November 9, 2011. It is declined also and the reason they claim is because I did not meet a roller over requirement. This is completely untrue because I never received any deposit bonus, but at this point I did not challenge the ruling and meet the rollover requirement by betting the amount needed on a tennis match so I could withdrawal.

5. I request another $15,000 bank wire withdrawal on November 11th, 2011 and later in the day when I try to log in my account it is suspended.

6. They accuse me of chip dumping now after they cleared my poker account on November 9th saying that everything was alright and I could withdrawal now.

7. They claim they cannot send me all my hand histories when I ask because it is to “massive” but they will send me the hand histories in which I “cheated”. They say they will send the hand histories in which they claim I “cheated” to me, but after asking multiple times for them they never do and still have not to this day.

8. I have never cheated or chip dumped on BetOnline or any site ever, and am willing and want to have all my hand histories reviewed by someone outside of BetOnline. I am continuing trying to get all my hand histories from BetOnline, but they are not sending them to me because they know I have done nothing wrong and are trying to find every excuse not to pay me.

9. Unfortunately, it is clear that BetOnline is coming up with excuse after excuse and is trying to steal $65,000 from me.

I have no idea if there is one, but if anyone knows if there is a BetOnline rep on 2+2 please contact me immediately or let me know who it is so I can contact them immediately. I will answer all questions on here and will do whatever I can until I am fairly paid the $65,000 I am owed.
 
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KerouacsDog

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my eyes are bleeding. in before Mods edit that horrendous post............ will reread when it looks a lot better
 
xdeucesx

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I've followed your story on 2+2,

you seem legit imo...hope this gets resolved for you
 
KerouacsDog

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read the 2p2 post by you, thats some sick reading bud. Ive heard bad things about BO, but never played there so didnt take much interest. all I can say is good luck bud, hope you get your money soon. and well played on winning it, doesnt mean much though when they wont give it to you.
 
KerouacsDog

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no worriesd bud, it might take a little while to sort tho.

short-term fix coming up next greg.
 
KerouacsDog

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thats ok, you owe me $1k when you get your money ;)
 
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Greg242

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thats ok, you owe me $1k when you get your money ;)
Lol I hope I get my money soon too. It is truly amazing and incredible that after asking for all of my hand histories from all of the hands that I ever played on site, and repeat promises from BetOnline to send them to me, I am still yet to recieve a single hand history. I have been asking for these hand histories since November 11th which was a week ago today, and still have not recieved anything.
I also feel a sickness in my stomach as I just noticed the ad for BetOnline at the top of this foum.
 
Pascal-lf

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have you contacted their regulatory authority?
 
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Greg242

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have you contacted their regulatory authority?
No I have not. Sports book review (SBR) is currently in contact with BetOnline in regards to my issue, so I am waiting to here what they have to say.
 
GotaLovePoke

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Obviously in litigations the only solution is the competent autorithy that has jurisdiction over the poker site.
Of course, after reading your post, I don't see BO's motive, maybe I am missing something but 65000$ is simply not a million dollars, and it can't be that demanding for them. Of course it all depends on volume.
Hopefuly everything gets sorted out for you.

Edit: After reading a definition of chip dumping, I can understand BO's claim of chip dumping. you started from 1,2k in 1000 NL and went to 65K.
1st: Why would some one play in 1000NL with 1,2k
2nd: How often will some one go from 1,2k to 65k short term in 1000NL, and what to stop playing completly after.
3rd:"ton of fish HU from 2knl-10knl throughout the month. " - Greg242, even more suspicious.
 
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steortex

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I have never understood this Chip dumping they are getting there rake why do they give a **** who gets it . its not theres so why in the hell do they care.....
 
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Makes me realise how lucky I am to live in uk and get pokerstars :).

One of those thread that doe seem genuine though and if it is I hope all get resolved, reading thread on 2p2 and it sounds very feaseble that BetOnline would try and screw someone over, although it does seem abit fishy to go from 1.2K to 65K. A question that I haven't yet seen you answer though, did you win that tennis bet?

Screenshot of confirmation that HH will be sent copied from 2p2 as well for the OP.

JlORa.jpg
 
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BlueNowhere

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Never mind, seen what you wrote about sports bet on 2p2 now lol. I wish I could bet over a grand and not really remember who won
 
KerouacsDog

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Obviously in litigations the only solution is the competent autorithy that has jurisdiction over the poker site.
Of course, after reading your post, I don't see BO's motive, maybe I am missing something but 65000$ is simply not a million dollars, and it can't be that demanding for them. Of course it all depends on volume.
Hopefuly everything gets sorted out for you.

Edit: After reading a definition of chip dumping, I can understand BO's claim of chip dumping. you started from 1,2k in 1000 NL and went to 65K.
1st: Why would some one play in 1000NL with 1,2k
2nd: How often will some one go from 1,2k to 65k short term in 1000NL, and what to stop playing completly after.
3rd:"ton of fish HU from 2knl-10knl throughout the month. " - Greg242, even more suspicious.
bolded: maybe 1.2k wasnt his total br, just what he wanted to play with. I do it all the time, depositing minimum to site and playing it all, if I lose i top-up from bank account.
 
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Re: BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)
I wanted to say I can no longer today respond to posts on my thread https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-rooms-10/betonli...000-me-203244/. Unfortunately I have under 65 total posts on there so I am limited to only 7 posts per 24 hours, and I have already used my 7 posts for the day.

If someone on cardschat could copy and paste this into my thread there that would be great. Thanks!
 
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RamdeeBen

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This is very unfortuate and disgusting if they are trying to steal the money from you.

The thing is though, why would they try and steal x-amount of money from you or anyone? It doesn't make sense, espically a site with quite a number of people who play on there. Besides which you would be one very highly valuable customer, as most high stake players generally are because of the amount of rake you pay.

Would 60k really be worth them risking their license, reputation and ultimately getting shut down? I just can't see why they would want to steal it. I could imagine a site stealing say, several million but even then that woulden't be worth the risk. Something in the region of maybe 100million would be worth it....not 60k that's like pennies to us "normal" people.

I'm not saying I doubt you by the way, maybe there is a reason behind it all, maybe someone hacked your account and chip dumped to get you banned? I dunno, just seems odd as to why they would steal money, unless it's some dodgy member of staff working for them and stealing the money.

By the way, if this was me in this situation I'd go to the highest of people in the company and even confront them personally at a main office of some kind if they have one.
 
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Story sounds legit. I wish you all the best and certainly hope this ends in your favor.
 
Debi

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alwyscrzy4life
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Join Date: Feb 2010
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Re: BetOnline is trying to steal $65,000 from me (cliff notes at end)
I wanted to say I can no longer today respond to posts on my thread https://www.cardschat.com/forum/poker-rooms-10/betonli...000-me-203244/. Unfortunately I have under 65 total posts on there so I am limited to only 7 posts per 24 hours, and I have already used my 7 posts for the day.

If someone on cardschat could copy and paste this into my thread there that would be great. Thanks!

I deleted the few low content posts in this thread (like ty)
 
KerouacsDog

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and my epic copy and paste post. I'll never catch you at this rate..............
 
Debi

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Can't get the 2p2 link to work now - even went there and copied with no success.
 
KerouacsDog

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nah, I was kidding, i only went there, copy and pasted it, and bought it back as a temporary measure so ppl could read the OP, till you guys fixed it.


(still p*ssed-off about my postcount tho................)
 
TheKAAHK

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This is very unfortuate and disgusting if they are trying to steal the money from you.

The thing is though, why would they try and steal x-amount of money from you or anyone? It doesn't make sense, espically a site with quite a number of people who play on there. Besides which you would be one very highly valuable customer, as most high stake players generally are because of the amount of rake you pay.

Would 60k really be worth them risking their license, reputation and ultimately getting shut down? I just can't see why they would want to steal it. I could imagine a site stealing say, several million but even then that woulden't be worth the risk. Something in the region of maybe 100million would be worth it....not 60k that's like pennies to us "normal" people.

I'm not saying I doubt you by the way, maybe there is a reason behind it all, maybe someone hacked your account and chip dumped to get you banned? I dunno, just seems odd as to why they would steal money, unless it's some dodgy member of staff working for them and stealing the money.

By the way, if this was me in this situation I'd go to the highest of people in the company and even confront them personally at a main office of some kind if they have one.

$65K from one person may not be worth it, but do that to 15-20 people and that's easily over $1M.

Outright stealing is of course too obvious, but using a reason such as chip dumping is good. "Chip dumping" is a term that is open to interpretation, and it is easy for a review to show, say, a questionable fold in a large pot against a regular with a monster hand (which turned out to be best, but OP didn't know it because he was watching multiple tables) and claim it was chip dumping. And without those HH's nobody can refute that.

(this is based on the assumption that on BetOnline you are not able to save your hh, or use HEM or PT3 for tracking, therefore having no hh at all from there)
 
KerouacsDog

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$65K from one person may not be worth it, but do that to 15-20 people and that's easily over $1M.

Outright stealing is of course too obvious, but using a reason such as chip dumping is good. "Chip dumping" is a term that is open to interpretation, and it is easy for a review to show, say, a questionable fold in a large pot against a regular with a monster hand (which turned out to be best, but OP didn't know it because he was watching multiple tables) and claim it was chip dumping. And without those HH's nobody can refute that.

my feeling's exactly........................
 
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Greg242

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Obviously in litigations the only solution is the competent autorithy that has jurisdiction over the poker site.
Of course, after reading your post, I don't see BO's motive, maybe I am missing something but 65000$ is simply not a million dollars, and it can't be that demanding for them. Of course it all depends on volume.
Hopefuly everything gets sorted out for you.

Edit: After reading a definition of chip dumping, I can understand BO's claim of chip dumping. you started from 1,2k in 1000 NL and went to 65K.
1st: Why would some one play in 1000NL with 1,2k
2nd: How often will some one go from 1,2k to 65k short term in 1000NL, and what to stop playing completly after.
3rd:"ton of fish HU from 2knl-10knl throughout the month. " - Greg242, even more suspicious.
1) 1.2k is not my bankroll. I am rolled for all of the games I was playing on the site and am a regular in mid/high stakes nl games on a few of the other sites that still accept US players. The reason I deposited 1.2k was because it was the max I could deposit via the method I wanted, I wanted to originally deposit around 10-15k (obviously now I am glad I did not do that).
2) I was playing 1000nl only until I had about 7-8k I believe, I do not remember exactly what I had before I jumped into the 2000nl games on there. I was playing 2000nl-10000nl on the site more then I was playing 1000nl. I did not want to stop playing completely after. What happened was I decided to attempt and make my first wire withdrawal. Then had all of the following problems talked about in my posts ...
3) How is this suspicious? There were a lot lot more fish that played HU at those stakes on BetOnline then the average site. I took advantage of this obviously and played as many fish HU as I could at those stakes.
 
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