BetOnline, just really bad players or something else?

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So after a lot of hard work, study, feedback here, and 10s of thousands of hands over on Bovada, I can finally say I'm a winning player at 5NL and 10NL FR NLH which felt great.


That said, i decided to check out BetOnline because I've heard it's a decent site and super soft. Made a small test deposit (with the idea of depositing enough for 20bis for the lowest cash game stake if I liked the software).

First thing I noticed was how massive the average pot sizes were in relation to the max stack buy ins (i.e seeing average pot sizes of $4+ in 10NL!) and noticed there was a ton of players just overbetting and shoving everything from bottom pair bottom kicker to gutshot draws, I thought, man this is going to be easy here.


Played a few days, ran good, hands held, players were truly terribad fish. So I deposited more to have the roll I discussed above, and immediately started losing. Over and over. And over.

And sure some of it was standard like going to far with TPTK or hitting 2 pair but being shown a flush on the turn. But some of it was really bizzare. Players aggro betting hands like57 suited (with one of their suit on the board and no pairs) and shoving flops to catch runner runner flushes. Players shoving A high into my flopped flushes to hit runner runner boats, players calling with 69o into pot sized bets with my flopped sets to hit a gutshot on river. Just lots of weird shoving with a wing and a prayer and them hitting over and over.

That's not to say I haven't had good sessions there, I easily grow stacks at each table but then it seems, without fail, someone will shove with nothing and get their perfect run out. Over and over. And on the flip side I'll call min bets with 15 outers on the flop and just whiff over and over! I'm just getting sucked out on so much and it's often against a player that's the aggressor in the hand it's just mind boggling.

So obviously this is magical thinking to assume that the site is somehow doing this on purpose, and I'm not implying they are. Poker can be cruel.


My questions after this mini vent above, has anyone here actually consistently grown or maintained a roll at BetOnline?


My roll is down to 5 buy ins after about 3 days of this, so I'm down 15 buy ins at the lowest stake. Compared to Bovada once i actually put in the work and play solid poker with solid BRM, I still lose a few buy ins here and there, but not like on Bet Online.

And if it is an honest site and the players are just terrible, any tips on how to beat these kind of any two card shovefest players? Should I be overbetting the pots when there's draws and really charging even more for draws? Or is it just a site where you need a really deep bankroll to sustain the absolute manic play I've seen there?

About to close my BetOnline account because I can do fine at Bovada but really struggling on there and I'm hesitant to set up a deeper roll there if no one else is actually consistently having success there, is it worth staying on BetOnline and if so how can I crush these players?

TL;DR: BetOnline 10NL FR, is it actually beatable? Have you consistently won there and is it worth the time? If so, how deep is your roll and any tips on how to counter the shove fests?
 
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Jon Poker

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I would love to see answers to any of these questions....everything you just spoke of is why i wont deposit one red cent on that site any longer. They have sent me countless promotions and freeplay options for the sportsbook betting and I am just not interested. FWIW, i dont believe it to be coincidental. Ive heard the same story too many times, story as in make a deposit - things go well, run good for a day or so - make a second deposit or add on to your first deposit - then run amazingly or incredibly bad until you deposit again and the cycle repeats itself.

Last hand i played there was $1/$2NL, i 4bet AA preflop, got a caller to the flop for $65 - flop came AJ9 rainbow, i bet about 1/4 pot, mp villan shoves all in, i snap call - they show 55 - well as if you couldnt tell, the turn comes a 5 and the river comes a 5. The player had me covered, this happened about 15 mins or so after running into set over set at the same table. Frustrated i took the "casino" and blew the rest of my roll playing blackjack, i was just angry and ready to go broke. If i EVER go to play on BOL again, it will be from freerolls only, I will never deposit money with them again.

This wasnt the first instance of this happening to me - I had a few bad hands saved in my hand history folder on my old PC where i flopped quad 3's once on a 33A board, had an opponent raise my flop bet, then call my all in with 66 and runner runner better quads. The only other hand i can recall being steamed about from them was holding KK and flopping a K on a very dry board, getting shoved on by a player holding A6 offsuit - the 6 being bottom pair, then runner runnering quad 6s as well. Just some really impossible runouts and situations in general - spots where you flop SOOO strong you cant possibly fold to a shove and then your opponent gets incredibly "lucky". I will have to see if i can dig up my old emails to them, I had hand history records to support all of these wild instances, and i had video evidence of this kind of thing as well. The ignored all of my evidence in the end and told me its all part of the game...if you play enough there, you will find out how much of the "game" is truly unreal. Bad beats happen, sometimes people catch their 2% on you, thats part of the game...but when you get beat by opponents who are less than 1% on the river, more than once in the same 4 - 5 hours, in multiple sessions....its a little astronomical.


I made 3 or 4 small deposits there, for a total of less than $400 or so, and had some very successful sessions - I turned a $40 deposit into just under $180 in about 4 hours. The next day, all the runbad started and no matter how much i walked away within about 2 or 3 weeks and multiple unreal suckouts and many different stakes - i went broke again. After this happened multiple times, enough was enough for me.
 
Jon Poker

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No one else has had any experience similar to these accounts from BOL? I would love to hear other stories if anyone has any
 
ScooperNova

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Is bovada still anonymous? Maybe you were benefiting from anonymity. Or maybe BOL is rigged lol who knows.
 
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Pablo22

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I stopped playing there for a few reasons, but one of them was the amount of times I get all in on the flop with the nuts and watch the runner runners beat me. I'm not saying it is rigged, but when there are an abundance of runner runners, it is not fun to play.
 
bekel285

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I'm doing ok on bol/SB I've got about $280 on there now and never deposited.
 
Jon Poker

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I'm doing ok on bol/SB I've got about $280 on there now and never deposited.


I am glad to hear that. Good for you. Be weary though - last i knew BOL will not let you withdrawal any cash without having deposited - i had a buddy a few years back build a bankroll there from a freeroll win and when he went to withdraw they would not let him since he had never deposited any money. Now that being said this was about 4 years ago ao maybe things have changed.
 
quick

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No one else has had any experience similar to these accounts from BOL? I would love to hear other stories if anyone has any

Is bovada still anonymous? Maybe you were benefiting from anonymity. Or maybe BOL is rigged lol who knows.

I stopped playing there for a few reasons, but one of them was the amount of times I get all in on the flop with the nuts and watch the runner runners beat me. I'm not saying it is rigged, but when there are an abundance of runner runners, it is not fun to play.

I'm doing ok on bol/SB I've got about $280 on there now and never deposited.

I am glad to hear that. Good for you. Be weary though - last i knew BOL will not let you withdrawal any cash without having deposited - i had a buddy a few years back build a bankroll there from a freeroll win and when he went to withdraw they would not let him since he had never deposited any money. Now that being said this was about 4 years ago ao maybe things have changed.


So I decided to put in about 6,000+ more hands and my roll (at time of my OP) was like $43, down from $200 starting and got it back up to around $130, then crashed back down to about $70, now hovering around $110. I went over my sessions past few days and I think the players are truly just terribad , just straight up gamble. The average pot sizes at the lowest stakes (10NL) are often like 30-40bbs which is huge. Lots of maniac play, people are either massively overbetting/shoving or they passively min bet, there seems to be little balance, it's quite a sight to see. So the pots either start out massively bloated or start small and then suddenly are like 150bbs.


So much terrible play, as I type this, someone flatted AA pre (for about the 30th time this weekend) then limp calls to the river lol. Or you get people shoving 77 pre flop first to act. Or folks calling pot bets on every street to get a gut shot. So I think the swings are HUGE here. My average session swing was about 2.5 buy ins up and down up and down per session. And currently running 6 buy ins below all in EV. Players either want to gamble on draws OR think they're trapping and playing their good but easily dominated hands OR they just think their pair is always good. There's a ton of really unnesseary bet sizings and aggression, it's pretty wild. At any given table there's usually one nit , 3 terribad LAGs , and the rest are either straight up gamble or passive recs. Very unpredictable plays which I think makes for wild swings.


Ironically I was doing great on Bovada, and the anonymity def helps my game there. But since I started playing on BOL, I've had to ramp up the bet sizing and aggression so my swings are bigger and I think that has seeped into my Bovada game. Or because wsop is going on on TV, all the maniacs playing like Durrrr are coming online. Literally can not win on Bovada past few days, KK vs AA over and over, TPTK to any too sooted hitted cards, etc etc. Overpairs getting two outed. On Bovada alone past week I've lost at least 10 buy ins on the river card. So def not exclusive to BOL's wildness.


Who knows the reason but I don't think it's rigged , I think just looking at my recent ups and downs and some of these players...they're just really bad action junkies. The TL;DR of the player pool: most play like they're playing a hyper turbo MTT, shoves left and right.


And yes most sites require either a deposit and/or rollover to be able to withdraw.
 
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Jon Poker

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Quick thanks for some evidence, tracking your sessions, etc. It truely could be just the most manic player pool ever, i could see that for sure. Its just unreal how some of the runouts seem to be there, to make you go broke. But anyhow, there again like you've said - if the players are just gambling - perhaps its nothing but a higher variance than any other sites currently running because of the sheer numbers of actual "gamblers" on their network
 
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though it only happens to me.... I never
 
quick

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Quick thanks for some evidence, tracking your sessions, etc. It truely could be just the most manic player pool ever, i could see that for sure. Its just unreal how some of the runouts seem to be there, to make you go broke. But anyhow, there again like you've said - if the players are just gambling - perhaps its nothing but a higher variance than any other sites currently running because of the sheer numbers of actual "gamblers" on their network

No problem. Over my complete sample of around 14,000 hands I'm about 10 buy ins below EV right now on the site although my HM2 is lagging so might be a little higher or lower. I'm still not 100% sure of this site, tonight just before this post, my roll there went from $105 down to $60. Lost AA to KK which was standard, but then also lost AA to K6o on the flop when they spiked trips, then lost AA all in on the turn to a guy with J10 (on a flush draw board with none of the suit and a 10, for him to river a trip 10 after calling a 2.5x pot size shove by me). So still not sure if it's the site or the gamblers, the aggression is super ramped up on that site for some reason.


Hand frequency wise I'm, getting dealt most hands at the expected frequency , although AA is a little lower than expected but probably nothing to sweat.


I did however notice that the pace of play moves MUCH quicker than Bovada so it's possible the increased hands per hour (nearly double) adds to the variance. I think if one continues to play there it's advisable to keep a deeper roll (maybe even like 35-40 buy ins) because they are shoving left and right and both my winning and losing session there have had swings up and down of 2+ buy ins.


though it only happens to me.... I never

Players just seem like straight up gamblers on there. But I agree some of the runouts and suckouts are pretty unbelievable esp when players shove and catch them.
 
Terrell423

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I can't complain on bol.... I won 13700 playing the 50000 tournament...I believe playing more the expensive tournament you will get better play of poker
 
mk0523

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Players are straight up terrible at this site and it's not just at the cash tables. If you played tournaments you would notice the exact same thing. You just need to put in more volume and you will see.
 
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I had the EXACT same experience at BOL. Deposited, ran good and built up a nice bankroll - then lost to all bad beats over and over. I mean, impossibly bad calls hitting runner runner session after session until everything I'd earned was gone. I haven't played on the site since. There is no way what I experienced was random- NO WAY.
 
Jon Poker

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Im glad to hear good stories of success over there and i completely believe their player pool - especially down at the lowest stakes - is the worst of the worst. That being said its also troubling to also hear the same matching horror stories from others too. I am glad some are having success but again - for me - i will never deposit another cent there. I will play freerolls and if i win, then i may play there a bit more, but as for making any future deposits - not gonna happen for me.

To conclude, again - i am glad to hear the good news from successful players over there. I hope we here more from others, but from my past experiences there, i will not be interested in making deposits there anytime soon.
 
Micro Maven

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I've never played BOL but if villains are playing far more loose/aggressive than your normal games you should expect higher variance and maintain more buy-ins for your bankroll. Short-term variance is a b****, good luck.
 
Micro Maven

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I'm also looking to add another site for tourneys, what method of deposit did you use?
 
Lorpugo

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On sports betting sites poker is gambling and eith knowledge you have deeper roll and tilt control you can win but this will break your game once you go back to pokerstars you will be pretty bad
 
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jfitzg414

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If you sports bet how can you adjust to the odds. With crds you have odd u calculate why sports bet
 
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I've said this before. Yes, there are bad beats and bots at BOL as there are everywhere else however I usually can blame only myself for losing due to stupid plays. It's what you do over the long run that's important.
 
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bigpappa325

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I would love to see answers to any of these questions....everything you just spoke of is why i wont deposit one red cent on that site any longer. They have sent me countless promotions and freeplay options for the sportsbook betting and I am just not interested. FWIW, i dont believe it to be coincidental. Ive heard the same story too many times, story as in make a deposit - things go well, run good for a day or so - make a second deposit or add on to your first deposit - then run amazingly or incredibly bad until you deposit again and the cycle repeats itself.

Last hand i played there was $1/$2NL, i 4bet AA preflop, got a caller to the flop for $65 - flop came AJ9 rainbow, i bet about 1/4 pot, mp villan shoves all in, i snap call - they show 55 - well as if you couldnt tell, the turn comes a 5 and the river comes a 5. The player had me covered, this happened about 15 mins or so after running into set over set at the same table. Frustrated i took the "casino" and blew the rest of my roll playing blackjack, i was just angry and ready to go broke. If i EVER go to play on BOL again, it will be from freerolls only, I will never deposit money with them again.

This wasnt the first instance of this happening to me - I had a few bad hands saved in my hand history folder on my old PC where i flopped quad 3's once on a 33A board, had an opponent raise my flop bet, then call my all in with 66 and runner runner better quads. The only other hand i can recall being steamed about from them was holding KK and flopping a K on a very dry board, getting shoved on by a player holding A6 offsuit - the 6 being bottom pair, then runner runnering quad 6s as well. Just some really impossible runouts and situations in general - spots where you flop SOOO strong you cant possibly fold to a shove and then your opponent gets incredibly "lucky". I will have to see if i can dig up my old emails to them, I had hand history records to support all of these wild instances, and i had video evidence of this kind of thing as well. The ignored all of my evidence in the end and told me its all part of the game...if you play enough there, you will find out how much of the "game" is truly unreal. Bad beats happen, sometimes people catch their 2% on you, thats part of the game...but when you get beat by opponents who are less than 1% on the river, more than once in the same 4 - 5 hours, in multiple sessions....its a little astronomical.


I made 3 or 4 small deposits there, for a total of less than $400 or so, and had some very successful sessions - I turned a $40 deposit into just under $180 in about 4 hours. The next day, all the runbad started and no matter how much i walked away within about 2 or 3 weeks and multiple unreal suckouts and many different stakes - i went broke again. After this happened multiple times, enough was enough for me.

sounds like you should of made a killing on bad beat jackpot
 
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Cdawg405

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I can't complain on bol.... I won 13700 playing the 50000 tournament...I believe playing more the expensive tournament you will get better play of poker


I agree, more professional players
 
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Cdawg405

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sounds like you should of made a killing on bad beat jackpot


I think if another A would of been on the board, it would have been a bad beat. A high 4 of a kind vs. 4 of a kind with 5’s
 
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bigpappa325

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I would love to see answers to any of these questions....everything you just spoke of is why i wont deposit one red cent on that site any longer. They have sent me countless promotions and freeplay options for the sportsbook betting and I am just not interested. FWIW, i dont believe it to be coincidental. Ive heard the same story too many times, story as in make a deposit - things go well, run good for a day or so - make a second deposit or add on to your first deposit - then run amazingly or incredibly bad until you deposit again and the cycle repeats itself.

Last hand i played there was $1/$2NL, i 4bet AA preflop, got a caller to the flop for $65 - flop came AJ9 rainbow, i bet about 1/4 pot, mp villan shoves all in, i snap call - they show 55 - well as if you couldnt tell, the turn comes a 5 and the river comes a 5. The player had me covered, this happened about 15 mins or so after running into set over set at the same table. Frustrated i took the "casino" and blew the rest of my roll playing blackjack, i was just angry and ready to go broke. If i EVER go to play on BOL again, it will be from freerolls only, I will never deposit money with them again.

This wasnt the first instance of this happening to me - I had a few bad hands saved in my hand history folder on my old PC where i flopped quad 3's once on a 33A board, had an opponent raise my flop bet, then call my all in with 66 and runner runner better quads. The only other hand i can recall being steamed about from them was holding KK and flopping a K on a very dry board, getting shoved on by a player holding A6 offsuit - the 6 being bottom pair, then runner runnering quad 6s as well. Just some really impossible runouts and situations in general - spots where you flop SOOO strong you cant possibly fold to a shove and then your opponent gets incredibly "lucky". I will have to see if i can dig up my old emails to them, I had hand history records to support all of these wild instances, and i had video evidence of this kind of thing as well. The ignored all of my evidence in the end and told me its all part of the game...if you play enough there, you will find out how much of the "game" is truly unreal. Bad beats happen, sometimes people catch their 2% on you, thats part of the game...but when you get beat by opponents who are less than 1% on the river, more than once in the same 4 - 5 hours, in multiple sessions....its a little astronomical.


I made 3 or 4 small deposits there, for a total of less than $400 or so, and had some very successful sessions - I turned a $40 deposit into just under $180 in about 4 hours. The next day, all the runbad started and no matter how much i walked away within about 2 or 3 weeks and multiple unreal suckouts and many different stakes - i went broke again. After this happened multiple times, enough was enough for me.[/quote
 
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