The AQ set up on Full Tilt

soncheebs

soncheebs

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I have no intention to imply that Full Tilt or any other poker site is rigged, however I keep encountering this situation, over and over again. First, let me just assure you all I would not make a post like this unless I had some numbers to back my findings up, I understand the concept of variance and the basic maths behind the likeliness of certain starting hands being dealt, etc.

This all started when I took a monsterous beat holding AQ in a two way pot where the board came AQ5 rainbow, and my opponent caught his K on the river, holding AK, to go ahead after we ended up all in following the blank turn.

I started to be hesitant every time I would get AQ, and thats when I started noticing this trend kept popping up, I found that almost every time I was dealt AQ, if cards did end up getting flipped over I always faced an AK accross the table. In fact it was happening so frequently that I decided to keep notes and track the occurance. It was like clockwork, I would raise with my AQ, get reraised, and just out of curiousity (and the fact that I was playing well under my normal limits, I started to push all in, not because it was the right play but because I truly wanted to see if it could keep happening. Sure enough, AK, AK, the occasional 3 way pot but none the less someone with AK. A few times I got lucky and paired my queen or pulled the straight but none the less, out of the 81 times that I have held AQ, since I've kept track, 50 times I have shown down against AK, and I'm geussing that more of those occasions would have had the same result but I got my opponent to fold preflop or after blanking on the flop got my villain holding AK to fold.

To sum things up, be careful out there, this happens to my brother who plays on Tilt also, quite frequently.

Either way I am baffled by it...and I think I've seen enough of it to stop letting my curiousity get the best of me.
 
WVHillbilly

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I, for one, am shocked that most people who call 4bet jams preflop have AK or better!
 
soncheebs

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Look I know I got slightly carried away, and maybe it was how I worded it. you dont think thats odd that there always seems to be an AQ dealt with an AK. I notice it with other people also, and when I have AK notice the sucker who got it in against me with AQ. It just seems to happen waaay waay too often, all I'm saying.

I mean look at it in the context of super turbo's even, you'll see it constantly. I play live alot too, and usually you can be somewhat excited if you get AQ suited, even off suit if you play it correctly. It's not a monster but its good. Not on full tilt, and I just know other people notice this too, they have to.
 
bazerk

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In your sample size of 81 there is no mention of A.Q vs A.A? My sample size of 2 earlier today:

A.A UTG (me)...bet 5x blind
A.Q SB...shoves all in (20x blind)
I call (have 5x SB's stack)
board = 8.8.x.Q.Q

Later another player has A.A against A.Q of above mentioned SB peep...A.A holds up this time & A.Q KOed.

So, there must not be a set up for A.Q vs A.A? ;)
 
XPOKERCHIC

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Well having numbers do help understand the RNG better. Some days I think they program it different. The RNG can be altered. I took a programming class, and I made a RNG. If the code is altered so is the outcome. Variance is what they make happen, not a bad luck, good luck thing. JMHO. X
 
bullishwwd

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Not Un-usual on line

I have no intention to imply that Full Tilt or any other poker site is rigged, however I keep encountering this situation, over and over again. First, let me just assure you all I would not make a post like this unless I had some numbers to back my findings up, I understand the concept of variance and the basic maths behind the likeliness of certain starting hands being dealt, etc.

This all started when I took a monsterous beat holding AQ in a two way pot where the board came AQ5 rainbow, and my opponent caught his K on the river, holding AK, to go ahead after we ended up all in following the blank turn.

I started to be hesitant every time I would get AQ, and thats when I started noticing this trend kept popping up, I found that almost every time I was dealt AQ, if cards did end up getting flipped over I always faced an AK accross the table. In fact it was happening so frequently that I decided to keep notes and track the occurance. It was like clockwork, I would raise with my AQ, get reraised, and just out of curiousity (and the fact that I was playing well under my normal limits, I started to push all in, not because it was the right play but because I truly wanted to see if it could keep happening. Sure enough, AK, AK, the occasional 3 way pot but none the less someone with AK. A few times I got lucky and paired my queen or pulled the straight but none the less, out of the 81 times that I have held AQ, since I've kept track, 50 times I have shown down against AK, and I'm geussing that more of those occasions would have had the same result but I got my opponent to fold preflop or after blanking on the flop got my villain holding AK to fold.

To sum things up, be careful out there, this happens to my brother who plays on Tilt also, quite frequently.

Either way I am baffled by it...and I think I've seen enough of it to stop letting my curiousity get the best of me.
Don't think that is very rare, but it happens on all on-line sites...also, happens LIVE too, called varience. I know the RIVER kills and upsets people, but it is simply poker. It really does happen. GL, Wally
 
Panamajoe

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Well having numbers do help understand the RNG better. Some days I think they program it different. The RNG can be altered. I took a programming class, and I made a RNG. If the code is altered so is the outcome. Variance is what they make happen, not a bad luck, good luck thing. JMHO. X

Hey X, The "RNG" used in most online poker rooms, and any other organizations that need TRULY random numbers,don't use the basic RNGs found in use in basic computer programming (these are actually pseudo RNGs). They actually use a technique that takes advantage of the temperature of the background microwave radiation in space and mouse movements, with very sophisticated algorithms to create a random deck.

I wrote one of the techies at UB or FT I think and got a very interesting dissertation regarding how they generate truly random deals.

I'll try to find it if you are interested and could forward it to you. If you are interested in RNGs you'll appreciate it.
 
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slycbnew

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I think some of you are missing Wv's point. If there's significant action pf and you're holding AQ, esp against a tight player, chances are that your hand is trash. Folding AQ to a 3bet or 4bet from a tight player is standard.
 
WVHillbilly

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Well my point was actually that people are dumb but what Sly said is correct as well. :)
 
nc_royals

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There's a reason why the WPT calls the AQ the doomed hand. Not another hand has busted out players more than it.
 
soncheebs

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OK I definately was misunderstood, WV I don't appreciate the negativity either, I was not complaining, just questioning. I know AQ is the doomed hand, and like I said I was enticing showdowns because I wanted a higher sample volume. So you can take that for what its worth but don't question my intelligence or chime in with your little snide remarks. I just hear all the time that people question the validity of the randomness, like how there always seems to be action cards and online "randomness" (not a word I know) compared to live. I just wanted to see if other people noticed this because yes while AQ gets slaughtered in jams against tight players (not rocket science) I don't think its very "random" that AK and AQ always come up together time after time. In fact I would encourage you all to keep track yourselves and I bet you'd find the same thing, over and over and over and over again.
 
soncheebs

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I just don't see how you took the post like I was questioning why I am losing with AQ, because that couldnt be further from the case.
 
Dwilius

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Do you not see how 4bet shoving skews your sample of matchups/narrows your showdowns to very strong hands like AK and big pairs, not worse ace hands? Why would you be surprised that AK shows up so often when you 4bet shove? AK is combinatorally as likely as AA, KK and QQ combined if you hold AQ.
 
WVHillbilly

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OK I definately was misunderstood, WV I don't appreciate the negativity either, I was not complaining, just questioning. I know AQ is the doomed hand, and like I said I was enticing showdowns because I wanted a higher sample volume. So you can take that for what its worth but don't question my intelligence or chime in with your little snide remarks. I just hear all the time that people question the validity of the randomness, like how there always seems to be action cards and online "randomness" (not a word I know) compared to live. I just wanted to see if other people noticed this because yes while AQ gets slaughtered in jams against tight players (not rocket science) I don't think its very "random" that AK and AQ always come up together time after time. In fact I would encourage you all to keep track yourselves and I bet you'd find the same thing, over and over and over and over again.

Nonsense. I didn't misunderstand you at all. You don't want to say online poker is "rigged" but it seems funny that they "always" have AK when you have AQ. Standard rigtard BS.

If you jam and they fold what does that do to your theory? Does that mean they probably folded AK or was the FTPs way of balancing the "I don't want to say rigged" RNG? Fact is that when you 4bet and someone calls/jams you're not seeing worse than AQ very often.

My final suggestion, stick around here and learn something. Stop talking and listen for a bit. You're not even half as good as you think. How do I know this? Because if you were you probably wouldn't have very many trials for your AQ experiment and you would certainly understand the results better than you currently do.
 
TPC

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I agree, the situation you are creating with AQ is only going to cause hands that are beating you to be playing with you.

OP, think of the flip side. How many times do you have AA, KK or QQ and raise from any position, only to have everyone fold? Happens quite often.
 
Vfranks

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LOL, yeah what they all said back there ^^.
The only person who is going to call you when you do that with AQ, is a person with a better hand, like AK, or once in a while an inexperienced player, or maybe someone on tilt. But very rarely will anyone with
anything less than AK call ur shoves like that, wouldn't you think?

none the less, out of the 81 times that I have held AQ, since I've kept track, 50 times I have shown down against AK, and I'm geussing that more of those occasions would have had the same result but I got my opponent to fold preflop or after blanking on the flop got my villain holding AK to fold.

No thats the point, they did not fold AK, they folded a weaker hand most likely.


..Also I dunno what position ur samples are from, but I have read strategy from pros that say they just open fold AQ from early position, which they do not say the same for AK..
 
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NBA2K10ROCKETS

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it has happened to us all and i think that all poker rooms are rigged they probably have the probability of people tieing increased so they get money alot of money on the rake and give you guys your money back with a chuck of money gone.
 
slycbnew

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it has happened to us all and i think that all poker rooms are rigged they probably have the probability of people tieing increased so they get money alot of money on the rake and give you guys your money back with a chuck of money gone.

sigh...
 
kidkvno1

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Well i must be so lucky not to see AQ, that much.
Tho when i do have it i tend to win with it.
 
zjohnzzz

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ive read in many articles, where a lot of pros dislike a q, saying they have been put out of tourneys deep with that hand more than any other
 
DoubleAA80

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lol. you just got beatch slapped by WVH. get some more experience man, ive been playin poker for over 14 years and still feel like a rookie as it has changed so much. play and dont play to collect stats or do and I hope im in the room with you.lol.peace
 
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