all the talent lies at full tilt ,

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pokerjdud

pokerjdud

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this im slowly starting to realize...i just cant win at pokerstars, no matter what. at full tilt, it seems like people care a little bit more about the calls they make , any thoughts?
 
riverboatrat

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I have NEVER won anything at pokerstars, not an sng, not a tourney, hell I havent even cashed in a tourney at stars

I stopped playing at stars all together.

However on full tilt, I cash consistently
 
pokerjdud

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yea i have noticed u win over there rather often, i guess im just gonna stick with full tilt, although i hate the software, guess i just have to open up the old paint program and do some table customizing haha.
 
F Paulsson

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I don't get the idea behind wanting to play versus people who make better calls, rather than the other way around.
 
pokerjdud

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simply because the consistent terrible calling over there, someone is bound to smoke you and ur gonna lose. everyone i talk to seems to notice the same thing, im in the plus playing at full tilt, but in the minus playing at stars, gotta be something there to think about...
 
shinedown.45

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I don't get the idea behind wanting to play versus people who make better calls, rather than the other way around.
^^^^These are my sentiments exactly^^^.
Why move over to a site where the play is better and the win-rate at cash tables are lower, sure there are way more donkeys over at stars but that is only due to the higher traffic than at FT.
My thoughts are if you can start winning consistently at stars then the online world of poker will become your oyster:)
 
Worak

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simply because the consistent terrible calling over there, someone is bound to smoke you and ur gonna lose. everyone i talk to seems to notice the same thing, im in the plus playing at full tilt, but in the minus playing at stars, gotta be something there to think about...

I can't see why those terrible callers could hurt me.
I play micro limits on stars (0.01/0.02 He/limit) and yes there are terrible players there calling or raising with air or bottom pair, chasing draws all along aso. If you can't use that to get paid off you must be doing something wrong imo.
 
F Paulsson

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simply because the consistent terrible calling over there, someone is bound to smoke you and ur gonna lose.
The idea behind a "terrible" call must be that they made a play that is "terrible" which implies that it will make them lose money in the long run. And actively avoiding losing players in favour of better players is not a profitable strategy.

Experiencing bad luck and variance is inevitable in this game. The only thing you do by playing better players is to win more small pots and lose bigger ones.
 
left52side

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Well I do agree with you,I seem to like full tilt quite a bit more than pokerstars,as well as many other sites I play on including ultimate bet and absolute.
I think the carbon network has some pretty solid sites as well.
Although I dont want my site to solid,got to have a few phish in there ya know.
 
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I seem to have better games at FullTilt to, but I lost my couple dollars there eventually on a bad run, but I found it alot easier to take pots before even seeing the river. People seem to take bets more seriously.
 
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pml1973

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I can honestly say that i play on multiple sites and they all seem to have their fill of bad beats, bad luck etc.
 
zachvac

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I don't get the idea behind wanting to play versus people who make better calls, rather than the other way around.

This. Last I checked we make money from opponent mistakes. Why on earth would you want to play better players?
 
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Brann6

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I play on both (although just the private tourneys on FT) and I see the same bad calls, silly bluffs, and donkey plays on both. For me, it's a tossup in that regard and, because I like the software better, my roll is on Stars.

However, I agree with other posters, if people are, in your experience, playing that much worse at Stars, why would you want to play against the better players at FT?
 
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potman1250

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bad players are everywhere. never noticed a difference.
 
Dagon7

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I think that because Full Tilt has more reasonable free rolls it keeps the desperate donks busy (like myself lol)
 
FreedomFighte1

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well any time i do win money at pokerstars it seems a really bad run of bad luck and bad beats just takes it all right back..but i think its the same way at all online poker sites..thats why i wont deposit any my money to there sites anymore...just dont trust them...so if i win in a freeroll thats the only money i get to play with...plus playen live is so much better
 
zachvac

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well any time i do win money at pokerstars it seems a really bad run of bad luck and bad beats just takes it all right back..but i think its the same way at all online poker sites..thats why i wont deposit any my money to there sites anymore...just dont trust them...so if i win in a freeroll thats the only money i get to play with...plus playen live is so much better

But when you win it's never ever good luck and you putting bad beats on other people?
 
DaFrench1

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This. Last I checked we make money from opponent mistakes. Why on earth would you want to play better players?

This is a difference of opinion between cash game players and MTT players imo.
 
VerbalKint

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I personally prefer P Stars because the micro limt play at the NL tables (.01/.02) closely resembles the $1/$2 NL play in Atlantic City. You see the same kind of bullying, same kind of scared money play, same snakes-in-the-grass re raisers, and a lot of nut-peddlers. If I can play +EV poker for an hour or two on P Stars then I know I can grind out a profit in AC. It really prepairs me well for live play.
 
riverboatrat

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This. Last I checked we make money from opponent mistakes. Why on earth would you want to play better players?

I for one enjoy playing against more experienced, better players because I learn from them.

I am not currently playing poker to make money, while I do play for real money, I am working on maintaining a bankroll while enhancing my understanding of the game.

When I am ready to jam pots for big money and try and make a living from it, I'll head off back to stars and clean up.
 
Monoxide

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It's threads like these that make me want to stab myself in the eyes.
 
zachvac

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This is a difference of opinion between cash game players and MTT players imo.
Wait, so you mean at tournaments we make more money by playing pros? Or did you mean the other way around? I've heard all kinds of things about the difference between tourneys and cash that I didn't agree with, but this one just makes no sense. Can you clarify what you are saying? Are you seriously saying that we don't make money from opponent mistakes in tourneys?
I for one enjoy playing against more experienced, better players because I learn from them.

I am not currently playing poker to make money, while I do play for real money, I am working on maintaining a bankroll while enhancing my understanding of the game.

When I am ready to jam pots for big money and try and make a living from it, I'll head off back to stars and clean up.

This is perfectly valid. Guy Laliberte could probably profit by nitting it up at 50nl but instead he has some fun at the nosebleeds where he doesn't care about money he loses. My previous post only holds true for players who have the main goal of making money.
 
DaFrench1

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Wait, so you mean at tournaments we make more money by playing pros? Or did you mean the other way around? I've heard all kinds of things about the difference between tourneys and cash that I didn't agree with, but this one just makes no sense. Can you clarify what you are saying?

To clarify:

I see the difference in mindset is that in cash games, as you ring players continually and rightly point out, you want players to make bad calls because that is how you make money in the long run.

In MTT's however, unless you're value betting the nuts or near-nuts, what you really want is people to FOLD! and to scoop up some chips unscathed. Sure, you want really bad calls from people way behind to build your stack nice and easy, but marginal and even some not so marginal but still bad calls can end up with the suckout that puts you on the rail or leaves you crippled, which is what most people are complaining about when they make threads like these. Although you cn argue that the game is the same. imo this is the big difference between the two. Nothing to do with playing pros, or even 'good' players for that matter...
 
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^^^^These are my sentiments exactly^^^.
Why move over to a site where the play is better and the win-rate at cash tables are lower, sure there are way more donkeys over at stars but that is only due to the higher traffic than at FT.
My thoughts are if you can start winning consistently at stars then the online world of poker will become your oyster:)

Do you mean to say that Stars have better players than Full Tilt or the other way round. Sorry for my ignorance, I have never played at Full Tilt.

I'm consistently winning at poker stars but I mainly play tournaments there (I challenge you to find a better site for MTTs)

Yet I don't feel I could win more at another site but that may just be a wrong impression or a lack of knowledge of other sites.


This is perfectly valid. Guy Laliberte could probably profit by nitting it up at 50nl but instead he has some fun at the nosebleeds where he doesn't care about money he loses.

Give me Guy's bank account I won't care either!!
:D


To clarify:
I see the difference in mindset is that in cash games, as you ring players continually and rightly point out, you want players to make bad calls because that is how you make money in the long run.

In MTT's however, unless you're value betting the nuts or near-nuts, what you really want is people to FOLD! and to scoop up some chips unscathed. Sure, you want really bad calls from people way behind to build your stack nice and easy, but marginal and even some not so marginal but still bad calls can end up with the suckout that puts you on the rail or leaves you crippled, which is what most people are complaining about when they make threads like these. Although you cn argue that the game is the same. imo this is the big difference between the two. Nothing to do with playing pros, or even 'good' players for that matter...

While I do agree with you somewhat, I have to say that bad callers are also welcome at my tounament table. The most obvious environment is rebuy tournaments where I want as many of these bad callers as possible.

Also I tend to do something that doesn't look pretty but is quite effective and prodigiously simple. I tend to go all in preflop with AK, even with relatively low blinds. Most players holding high aces just can't fold their hand and don't even find it suspicious that you have raised so much!! Easy double ups are quite important if you wanna do well in tourneys.

But their is a caveat. You must play a lot of tournaments and very regularly because you have got to expect a certain failure rate here. But most of the time one of 4 things will occur: You'll end up 1- dominating your opponent (the best case), 2- having a slight edge over a player with 2 live cards (not bad), 3- race (neutral) or 4- pick up the blinds (neutral).

It's not a bad spot to find yourself into.


Oh and there are situations where you may prefer to play pros than good amateurs. One situation I found myself in was when playing a WCOOP Step 6 at Stars. I qualified cheap (I usually start with a $27 Step 2) and ended up playing this $2100 Step 6 Sit & Go. Now I think 3 seats for the Main Event were up for grabs with $1200 rebates for 4th and 5th or something similar. I qualified for the price a few $27 Step 2 buy-ins so it meant there was 5 places paid (where a nice profit could be made).

I deliberately entered the Step 6 that had pro players or big time winning guys because they tend to play loose and as a result were more likely to bust out early. My tight style of play meant I was likely to stick around for longer. Indeed it worked as half of the loose "pros" got eliminated early at the expense the other loose pros. I ended in 5th place for $1200 which suited the modest player that I am.

Anyway that's just one example of how I (the tight amateur player) could take advantage of a player who played to win (the pro).


Oh and any of you guys play at betfair? What do you think of player there?
 
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