Mikey gets a penalty for the violation of a rule which doesn't exist

JusSumguy

JusSumguy

Chipmonger
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Total posts
4,271
Awards
2
Chips
0
wsop floor is turning into mall cops. But the team rallies around Mikey. The guys name is Dave Lamb, the mall cop.

Daniel Negreanu-->" Poker is supposed to be fun guys, it's not war. There is no need for a Nazi like enforcement of rules that don't accomplish what they are designed to accomplish. If you are a tournament director, you would be wise to take a chill pill, keep it friendly, issue warnings followed by penalties when necessary, and do as little as possible to effect the outcome of tournaments that you haven't risked a penny to play."
_______________________________

Interview: Mike Matusow Implodes After "Excessive Celebration" Penalty at WSOP



After a recent incident involving Matusow and WSOP Floorman Dave Lamb resulted in "The Mouth" being muzzled, the poker world quickly rallied around their comrade in arms, proving that despite his foibles and flaws, Matusow has forged genuine friendships throughout a career that has been defined more by controversy than camaraderie on and off the felt.



Full story --> http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/06/interview-mike-matusow-excessive-celebration-18516.htm


-
 
Last edited:
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
N'yeah... I see where they're coming from, but there's a bunch of things I disagree with in the article too.

First of all it's definitely a rule that exists at the WSOP. It's not like it's an obscure one either, pretty much anyone who's followed the series in recent years knows about it. It's been featured in its own special segment on the ESPN broadcasts, and it definitely shouldn't come as a surprise to someone like Matusow.

Next, call it a nitpick, but while Matusow the person can be brash and boisterous, his poker is very much bland and boring - unless he's changed completely in the past 12 months, other than watching him have a meltdown he's a terminally boring nit.

Matusow says it's the worst ruling in poker history, and there's hopefully a good deal of hyperbole intended with that because it wouldn't even come close.

Lastly, he says that if it were Hellmuth, Negreanu or Ivey in the same spot they wouldn't have gotten a penalty.

It's hard to say if that's true or not, since in Negreanu and Ivey he's comparing himself to two of the classiest players in the game: quite simply, you'd never see them running around a table screaming just because they won a pot. Phil Ivey is lucky to just crack a smile when he wins a bracelet.

I even have trouble picturing Hellmuth doing it (berrating someone who just beat him in a pot is a different question altogether...)
 
JusSumguy

JusSumguy

Chipmonger
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Total posts
4,271
Awards
2
Chips
0
First of all it's definitely a rule that exists at the WSOP. It's not like it's an obscure one either, pretty much anyone who's followed the series in recent years knows about it. It's been featured in its own special segment on the ESPN broadcasts, and it definitely shouldn't come as a surprise to someone like Matusow.

The rule doesn't exist anymore. And has been gone for a while.

I had no… I still thought there was an excessive celebration penalty because I had heard something about that, even though I didn’t excessively celebrate, OK, but when Jack Effel called me this morning and said “Mike, well we don’t even have that penalty anymore, we got rid of that two years ago,” now I’m thinking to myself wow. Not only did this guy **** me and steal my tournament, he ****ing gave me a penalty that doesn’t exist. So, this was hard to handle.
-
 
trekmaster

trekmaster

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Total posts
332
Chips
0
Mike is my least favorite pro player out there, however I feel there should have been some prior warning before a penalty was giving.On the back end of the interview there was mention of him texting his backer of his progress. To me this just goes to show how sorry of a player he is.If your such a pro why do you need people to back you when your this far into your career?
 
M

misko

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 4, 2014
Total posts
239
Chips
0
I dont like people who celebrate excessive but i desagree to give them penalty.
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Total posts
1,039
Chips
0
This is so not fair. How can someone be handed such a severe penalty without a prior warning is way over my head. Don't think any players were affected by Mikey's celebrations. I mean he tripled up and won a huge pot, that calls for a special "Mikey" celebration. What the floorman or whoever gave that ruling was simply not "cool".
 
wagon596

wagon596

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2008
Total posts
3,767
Awards
13
Chips
11
Altho, I'm not a big fan of Mike, I think he got screwed on this one. It really sounds like this floor guy was on a "Power Trip". If the people don't know the rules, how can they enforce them correctly ?

Also alot of people have know idea what it's like to live with Bi-Polar. My ex-wife is Bi-Polar, let me tell you, even on Meds it was a roller coaster ride. We went our separate ways after 18 years of marriage.

Fatigue and stress are great triggers to set off unusual behavior from a Bi-Polar, so Mike is a bomb fixing to go off at anytime. I'm not saying this excuses his behavior, but it does help explain it.

Just my thoughts.
 
Tammy

Tammy

Can I help you?
Administrator
Joined
May 18, 2005
Total posts
57,551
Awards
11
US
Chips
1,175
Mike is my least favorite pro player out there, however I feel there should have been some prior warning before a penalty was giving.On the back end of the interview there was mention of him texting his backer of his progress. To me this just goes to show how sorry of a player he is.If your such a pro why do you need people to back you when your this far into your career?
A lot of well-known pros have backers for a lot of their action in WSOP.
 
R

rhombus

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 1, 2012
Total posts
2,601
Chips
0
A lot of well-known pros have backers for a lot of their action in WSOP.
espcially the bigger buyins to spread the variance. but do you think this is a good idea when they back each other and a few players each

How much soft play would go on if they were geting closer to the money.
 
F

fordman427

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Total posts
492
Chips
0
Stupidest decision I have ever seen!!! He's right if Hellmuth had acted like that they would've just said that's Phil being Phil.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
The rule doesn't exist anymore. And has been gone for a while.

-

It's still possible he fell afoul of this rule, even if the specific reference to "excessive celebration" has been removed (from http://www.wsop.com/2014/2014-WSOP-Rules.pdf, emphasis added):

112. Etiquette Violations: Repeated etiquette violations will result in the imposition of penalties assessed by the Tournament Staff. Examples include, but are not limited to, unnecessarily touching other participants’ cards or chips, body, or clothing, delay of the game, repeatedly acting out of turn, betting out of reach of the dealer, or excessive chatter. Excessive chatter includes, but is not limited to, talking or conversation that causes a disruption of participants who are in a hand.

Without knowing any context other than what's in the story it's hard to say whether it was right or wrong. I agree, it seems like an incredibly harsh interpretation. But if they can penalise you just for talking too much at the table, then is it really that big a stretch to think they can penalise you for running laps of the table and screaming?
 
JusSumguy

JusSumguy

Chipmonger
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2011
Total posts
4,271
Awards
2
Chips
0
None of us knew the real story...

He didn't get violated for excessive celebration. He received a penalty, after a warning, for getting right in the floor mans face... spittle flying.

This after the whole table called the floor cuz Mikey was dropping the F bomb continually. Story is all over the web.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey. No more benefit of the doubt brother.

-
 
JPoling

JPoling

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 13, 2014
Total posts
756
Chips
0
Correct me if I am wrong, wasnt that excessive celebration rule made a rule because of Mike in the first place back in the day? Wasn't that the "Matusow" rule or it was something along those lines. Basically the "matusow" rule was put into play back in the day for people being excessive and obnoxious about their wins or in general im not sure. Basically they just dont want you acting like a dick. Like I understand that feeling after winning a big pot, but also take the loser into consideration. I am not sticking up for them at all. This was complete bullshit. They literally robbed him basically. Well least he has a cool-ish head. Because I would of went to jail that day/night. I would of told them **** your penalty better bring security if you want me to leave this table. But I have no class :p
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
Actually when it was first brought in, it was unofficially known as the "Hevad Kahn rule", after this guy:


As for the rest of the Matusow story... read the second link above, it puts what happened into an entirely different light
 
JPoling

JPoling

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 13, 2014
Total posts
756
Chips
0
Oh yea that is who it first was. There was another rule i swore they nicknamed the "matusow rule" not sure though. Either way that rule was thrown out 2 years ago which is just terrible. How can the people enforcing these rules not even know what they are. I feel so bad for Mikey.
 
JPoling

JPoling

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 13, 2014
Total posts
756
Chips
0
Wow - yeah, seems that way: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-blogs/89-allyn-shulman/entries/561819-wsop-the-matusow-penalty

More than justified in that case, and it doesn't even sound like he served the full penalty...
This sheds a little more light on it, but this writer just seems like a bitch. I am sorry but I gotta agree with Mike. He can say whatever he feels like as long as it is not deragatory to someone. Now the whole getting the Dave Lambs face....yea I cant side with him on that. Only thing I can side with him on is F anyone that complains about people being vulgar. 1) who are you to say what I can and can't say? Sorry no cuss words according to my morals. 2) This writer just seems like she had a problem with his language more then anything....you are in Vegas....at a Casino...? You are worried about vulgar language?
 
Tammy

Tammy

Can I help you?
Administrator
Joined
May 18, 2005
Total posts
57,551
Awards
11
US
Chips
1,175
This sheds a little more light on it, but this writer just seems like a bitch. I am sorry but I gotta agree with Mike. He can say whatever he feels like as long as it is not deragatory to someone. Now the whole getting the Dave Lambs face....yea I cant side with him on that. Only thing I can side with him on is F anyone that complains about people being vulgar. 1) who are you to say what I can and can't say? Sorry no cuss words according to my morals. 2) This writer just seems like she had a problem with his language more then anything....you are in Vegas....at a Casino...? You are worried about vulgar language?
It's actually a rule at the Rio on the whole as well, regarding vulgarities, etc. I personally don't care if people cuss or not around me. I'm a big girl, but if what she is saying is true, I can see how that would get realllly old, reallly fast. Shut the **** up and just play, Mike, is what I'd be thinking. Don't see how that article makes her a bitch, just because she's saying what really happened. He was acting like a douche (if what she says is true, and why would she lie?) and so probably deserved the penalty after all.
 
JustDestined

JustDestined

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Total posts
83
Chips
0
This is definitely a case for not believing everything you read or hear. This happens so often where there is the story and then there is what actually happened, which if the second article is correct, makes much more sense.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,599
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Oh yea that is who it first was. There was another rule i swore they nicknamed the "matusow rule" not sure though.

That was for doin' lines at the table.


Where is Khan these days? Haven't seen or heard of him in ages
 
Peteyweestro

Peteyweestro

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Total posts
188
Chips
0
So Mike acted like a huge Richard Cranium again and it nailed him, i say good get some class Mike
 
A

Aslama01

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 24, 2011
Total posts
79
Chips
0
If that's how he was acting, I can understand where she was coming from. But that she wanted floor to take care of it before she made any attempt, that's what is a little lack luster imo.
 
bsam

bsam

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Total posts
108
Awards
1
Chips
10
Either way I think it's pretty disrespectful to always berate someone when they win with a mediocre hand I mean you put the chips in and lost they should of done something long before to him for all that.
 
JPoling

JPoling

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
May 13, 2014
Total posts
756
Chips
0
If that's how he was acting, I can understand where she was coming from. But that she wanted floor to take care of it before she made any attempt, that's what is a little lack luster imo.
+1
 
Poker Rules - Poker Games
Top