Holdem Manager HUD question - Full Tilt datamining

I'm using the trial version of Holdem Manager and noticed that HUD stats are only displayed on Full Tilt tables where I'm seated, and not others I have open. Since I've been using PT2 and PokerAceHUD to datamine tables for table selection purposes, if it's impossible to do with Holdem Manager it might be a deal-breaker for purchasing it.

Is HEM incapable of displaying HUD stats on Full Tilt tables where I'm not seated, or am I just missing a setting or something?

Not sure how/if you can do that in HEM. I'm pretty sure datamining is being disallowed on FTP though, so I guess it doesn't matter anyways.

There's an option in the HEM HUD setup that allows you to choose whether you want the HUD on the tables where you're not sitting.

You are correct Chuck, FT no longer allows data mining so if you do not want to risk having your account frozen and funds confiscated, I suggest you cease asap.

Where does it say on FTP's web site that datamining is forbidden?

Anyway, HEM is only relying on hand histories saved on disk by the site's own software client, so using it must be 100% legit. If like pokerstars they stop saving the HH for tables you observe, than so be it.

So I guess that response I got from Fulltilt saying HEM wasn't permitted there at all was incorrect?

Can you point me to where to find it? I see "Disable HUD Stats when there is no Hero," but it's not selected so I'd think it would be displaying.

Really? So am I breaking a rules by having, say, three extra tables open while I'm playing on three others? What if I'm on the waiting list for those tables? Is this documented somewhere? I'm not seriously datamining as in grabbing data en masse while I sleep.

FTP and PS have about the same language to define what is acceptable: "Programs that profile your opponents, but make use of only information which you have accumulated by your own play"

Then PS lists HEM as a permitted tool and FTP does not list any banned software AFAIK. My conclusion would be that HEM is legit on both sites.

was basing it on this:

Hello Debi,

Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.

Full Tilt Poker permits players to use PokerTracker and Poker Ace Hud on the site, as these programs do not offer players with features which are deemed to be an unfair advantage over others.

Hold'em Manager is not permitted for use on Full Tilt Poker, as it provides players with features which could be deemed to be an unfair advantage over others.

On behalf of Full Tilt Poker, I wish you the best of luck at the tables. Should you have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.

Regards,

Tom
Poker Specialist
Full Tilt Poker Support


I guess I will contact them again and see what they say. I don't want to purchase it if they don't allow it.

This is very confusing as HEM and PT essentially provide the same features...

I sent a response to that asking for clarification.

Here's F.T.P's page on prohibited programs:

Online Poker at Full Tilt Poker - Legal Information: Prohibited Programs

2 observations:

- This page lists no prohibited software by name. Unless they do, I would assume they couldn't do much about players using HEM. In Deb's email, it seems like someone at FTP is confused as to what HEM is. There are programs with names similar to HEM that do have "helper" elements in them.

- While this page does vaguely address what could be construed as "datamining", the wording focuses more on shared databases. F.T.P has always had the capability of datamining and allowed it. They could very easily change their software to disable observed hand data (as Stars and Party have). Also, it would be odd to still have the capability in their software but then have the practice NOT be allowable.

Was this ever clarified?

Yes - they apologized and said I had been misinformed by the previous rep and that HEM was permitted for use at FT.

thanks for the quick reply. Was getting worried when i found this in the archive lol