Tournament EV (NOT hand $EV)

Originally Posted by spaceboy_psy

Hello everyone and thanks for having me

I'm in the very early stages of my poker undertaking, and I seek some discussion on the issue of what I will call 'tournament EV'. The reason I feel I have to give it a name is that I can't really find the idea discussed much online, which I is why I wanted to post here and see if it is actually a useful tool at all in choosing tournaments based on an overall EV figure. What I'm NOT talking about is the widely discussed issue of $EV in STTs.

I was inspired by this thread: Freeroll Tournaments Value - Which are the best Freerolls?

So I started calculating the EV of some STTs under the assumption that the EV of a tournament would give at least a rough guide to the value of the STT, though obviously not allowing for lots and lots of factors.

My calculations say that the EV of a tournament follows this formula:

(Prizepool - (unpaid places * buy-in)) / players

Sound good?

Here's some examples:

PartyPoker SnG EV:
10 player
$1 Turbo: (8 - 7) / 10 = 0.1
$3 Speed: (24 - (7*3)) / 10 = 0.3
$3 Turbo: (24 - (7*3)) / 10 = 0.3
6 player
$1 Turbo: (4.80 - 4) / 6 = 0.1333
$3 Stand: (14.40 - (4*3)) / 6 = 0.4
$3 Turbo: (14.40 - (4*3)) / 6 = 0.4

PokerStars SnG EV:
10 player Fifty50 buy in $1.50/3.50
$1.50 Reg: (13.50 - (5*1.5)) / 10 = 0.6
$1.50 Tur: (13.90 - (5*1.5)) / 10 = 0.64
$3.50 Reg: (32.60 - (5*3.5)) / 10 = 1.51
$3.50 Tur: (33.00 - (5*3.5)) / 10 = 1.55
9 player buy in $1.50/3.50
$1.50 Reg: (11.61 - (6*1.5)) / 9 = 0.29
$1.50 Tur: (11.88 - (6*1.5)) / 9 = 0.32
$3.50 Reg: (27.99 - (6*3.5)) / 9 = 0.7766
$3.50 Tur: (28.44 - (6*3.5)) / 9 = 0.8266
6 player buy in $1.50/3.50
$1.50 Reg: (7.74 - (4*1.5)) / 6 = 0.29
$1.50 Tur: (7.92 - (4*1.5)) / 6 = 0.32
$3.50 Reg: (18.78 - (4*3.5)) / 6 = 0.63
$3.50 Tur: (19.14 - (4*3.5)) / 6 = 0.8566


So by these numbers, it looks as if the $3.50 Turbo Fifty50 is the best value, and way better value than most of the other micro STTs I looked at, with an EV of 1.55. So if one were, as I am, a beginner looking around at different game types before deciding which to specialise in, it would seem that the Fifty50s would be a good STT to focus on.

Interestingly, the 6 player STTs on PartyPoker seem better value than the 10 player games.

So what do you guys think? How useful/reliable are these figures? Am I way out or on to something? Obviously they will always need to be viewed alongside many other factors, so which presently-ignored factors are the most important here? The first one that jumps to my mind is that although the EV goes up as the buy in goes up, perhaps the easy level of play at the lower buy in would make up for this? I need some guidance.

Look forward to discussing this (I'll buy the virtual beers)

Originally Posted by eazy489

I agree that turbo sit n go's are a good place to start for a beginner. What you should focus more on is SnG strategy, such as becoming comfortable with how many big blinds you have, when you should be shipping in preflop etc. I started my poker career playing SnG's. I would say I like your little EV calc. Think about how much $$ you want to devote to poker. Let's say you want to devote $500. You should be playing $5 and $6 Sng's, because you need to practice good BR management. Read up on how to practice good bankroll mgmt like shinedown said. Then read up on good SnG strategy. Again, you need to be comfortable with shipping in 10 or 12 Big blinds with a wide range of hands that play well post flop. The key to winning in SNG's is knowing when to be aggressive and knowing when to be patient. Typically in a SnG, you will need to be patient early on, and very aggressive late in the SnG. As far as trying to determine which SnG's you should play, again worry more about what your poker bankroll looks like and then what level you should be playing based on your bankroll size.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by Samango

Don't you sometimes wish there was an emoticon for - whoosh , went straight over his head

Originally Posted by dj11

Welcome to CC spaceboy.

Google Independent Chip Model (commonly aka ICM) . Complicated, with people continually trying to simplify things.

Very related to what you seem to be seeking.

However, your formula and examples seems to sort of stand on their own as something useful.

Originally Posted by Samango

Don't you sometimes wish there was an emoticon for - whoosh , went straight over his head