thoughts on my 99

Raymund2468

Raymund2468

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*********** # 1 ************** pokerstars Hand #87742755608: Tournament #627495986, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (400/800) - 2012/10/16 9:07:57 ET Table '627495986 80' 9-max Seat #3 is the button Seat 1: nulltore (3577 in chips) Seat 2: Raymund2468 (4148 in chips) Seat 3: Teevs69 (16775 in chips) Seat 4: Extort10n (9890 in chips) Seat 5: baddada123 (12237 in chips) Seat 6: hanzaz (7527 in chips) Seat 7: elion22 (30600 in chips) Seat 8: jirigeorgurb (33011 in chips) is sitting out Seat 9: Hock€rzocker (10870 in chips) nulltore: posts the ante 100 Raymund2468: posts the ante 100 Teevs69: posts the ante 100 Extort10n: posts the ante 100 baddada123: posts the ante 100 hanzaz: posts the ante 100 elion22: posts the ante 100 jirigeorgurb: posts the ante 100 Hock€rzocker: posts the ante 100 Extort10n: posts small blind 400 baddada123: posts big blind 800 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Raymund2468 [Kd Td] hanzaz: folds elion22: folds jirigeorgurb: folds Hock€rzocker: folds nulltore: folds Raymund2468: raises 3200 to 4000 Teevs69: folds Extort10n: folds baddada123: calls 3200 *** FLOP *** [8h Jd 6h] baddada123: checks Raymund2468: bets 48 and is all-in baddada123: calls 48 *** TURN *** [8h Jd 6h] [Jc] *** RIVER *** [8h Jd 6h Jc] [7h] *** SHOW DOWN *** baddada123: shows [Ts Tc] (two pair, Jacks and Tens) Raymund2468: shows [Kd Td] (a pair of Jacks) baddada123 collected 9396 from pot Raymund2468 finished the tournament in 643rd place *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 9396 | Rake 0 Board [8h Jd 6h Jc 7h] Seat 1: nulltore folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: Raymund2468 showed [Kd Td] and lost with a pair of Jacks Seat 3: Teevs69 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Extort10n (small blind) folded before Flop Seat 5: baddada123 (big blind) showed [Ts Tc] and won (9396) with two pair, Jacks and Tens Seat 6: hanzaz folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: elion22 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 8: jirigeorgurb folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 9: Hock€rzocker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
Raymund2468

Raymund2468

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is this standard or what? they had only two outers in each card. and i am in the early position, need to raise on that preflop or just fold when they shoved all in? thoughts on this, because can't sleep after that bad beat, if i won that hand i will be sitting of the chip lead in the tourney. sucks out
 
Raymund2468

Raymund2468

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ooops. wrong hand. not this one
 
Raymund2468

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*********** # 13 ************** PokerStars Hand #87742246000: Tournament #627495986, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (350/700) - 2012/10/16 8:53:04 ET Table '627495986 80' 9-max Seat #8 is the button Seat 1: nulltore (5122 in chips) Seat 2: Raymund2468 (20471 in chips) Seat 3: Teevs69 (20535 in chips) Seat 4: Extort10n (12590 in chips) Seat 5: baddada123 (10482 in chips) Seat 6: wluczykij8 (9944 in chips) Seat 7: trist385 (4780 in chips) Seat 8: jirigeorgurb (13048 in chips) Seat 9: Hock€rzocker (7245 in chips) nulltore: posts the ante 85 Raymund2468: posts the ante 85 Teevs69: posts the ante 85 Extort10n: posts the ante 85 baddada123: posts the ante 85 wluczykij8: posts the ante 85 trist385: posts the ante 85 jirigeorgurb: posts the ante 85 Hock€rzocker: posts the ante 85 Hock€rzocker: posts small blind 350 nulltore: posts big blind 700 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Raymund2468 [9c 9h] Raymund2468: calls 700 Teevs69: folds Extort10n: folds baddada123: folds wluczykij8: folds trist385: raises 3995 to 4695 and is all-in jirigeorgurb: raises 8268 to 12963 and is all-in Hock€rzocker: folds nulltore: folds Raymund2468: calls 12263 *** FLOP *** [7s Ah Jh] *** TURN *** [7s Ah Jh] [2h] *** RIVER *** [7s Ah Jh 2h] [Kh] *** SHOW DOWN *** Raymund2468: shows [9c 9h] (a flush, Ace high) jirigeorgurb: shows [Qh Ad] (a flush, Ace high - Queen higher) jirigeorgurb collected 16536 from side pot trist385: shows [Qd Ac] (a pair of Aces) jirigeorgurb collected 15900 from main pot trist385 finished the tournament in 818th place *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 32436 Main pot 15900. Side pot 16536. | Rake 0 Board [7s Ah Jh 2h Kh] Seat 1: nulltore (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 2: Raymund2468 showed [9c 9h] and lost with a flush, Ace high Seat 3: Teevs69 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 4: Extort10n folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: baddada123 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: wluczykij8 folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: trist385 showed [Qd Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces Seat 8: jirigeorgurb (button) showed [Qh Ad] and won (32436) with a flush, Ace high Seat 9: Hock€rzocker (small blind) folded before Flop
 
dmorris68

dmorris68

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Not sure what you're using to paste this HH from, but it's losing all line endings which makes it pretty much un-followable (unless you enjoy headaches), and the CC HH converter won't process it. Try again and then maybe you'll get some responses.
 
Raymund2468

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i just copied and paste it. duno why the HH is losing all line endings :(
 
Raymund2468

Raymund2468

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*********** # 13 **************
PokerStars Hand #87742246000: Tournament #627495986, $4.00+$0.40 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (350/700) - 2012/10/16 8:53:04 ET
Table '627495986 80' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: nulltore (5122 in chips)
Seat 2: Raymund2468 (20471 in chips)
Seat 3: Teevs69 (20535 in chips)
Seat 4: Extort10n (12590 in chips)
Seat 5: baddada123 (10482 in chips)
Seat 6: wluczykij8 (9944 in chips)
Seat 7: trist385 (4780 in chips)
Seat 8: jirigeorgurb (13048 in chips)
Seat 9: Hock€rzocker (7245 in chips)
nulltore: posts the ante 85
Raymund2468: posts the ante 85
Teevs69: posts the ante 85
Extort10n: posts the ante 85
baddada123: posts the ante 85
wluczykij8: posts the ante 85
trist385: posts the ante 85
jirigeorgurb: posts the ante85
Hock€rzocker: posts the ante 85
Hock€rzocker: posts small blind 350 nulltore: posts big blind 700

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Raymund2468 [9c 9h]
Raymund2468: calls 700
Teevs69: folds
Extort10n: folds
baddada123: folds
wluczykij8: folds
trist385: raises 3995 to 4695 and is all-in
jirigeorgurb: raises 8268 to 12963 and is all-in
Hock€rzocker: folds
nulltore: folds
Raymund2468: calls 12263

*** FLOP *** [7s Ah Jh]
*** TURN *** [7s Ah Jh] 2♥
*** RIVER *** [7s Ah Jh 2h] K♥

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Raymund2468: shows [9c 9h] (a flush, Ace high)
jirigeorgurb: shows [Qh Ad] (a flush, Ace high - Queen higher)
jirigeorgurb collected 16536 from side pot trist385: shows [Qd Ac] (a pair of Aces)
jirigeorgurb collected 15900 from main pot trist385 finished the tournament in 818th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 32436 Main pot 15900.
Side pot 16536.
| Rake 0 Board [7s Ah Jh 2h Kh]
Seat 1: nulltore (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Raymund2468 showed [9c 9h] and lost with a flush, Ace high
Seat 3: Teevs69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Extort10n folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: baddada123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: wluczykij8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: trist385 showed [Qd Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 8: jirigeorgurb (button) showed [Qh Ad] and won (32436) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 9: Hock€rzocker (small blind) folded before Flop
 
N

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looks like you lost a flip? I dont see the problem?
 
dmorris68

dmorris68

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I'm guessing you hand edited that last one since you missed a few lines. What editor are you pasting from? If you're pasting directly from the HH viewer in the Stars client that may be why. Open the local HH file in Notepad and copy/paste from there. Even better, use a HH Converter (although ours seems to be hit & miss lately, and I couldn't make it work with this one).

As Debi mentioned in your other thread, when posting HH's for analysis, don't post the results until people have had a chance to respond. The results are irrelevant and can skew the analysis.

I was able to use DTB's converter after I fixed a few lines:

Poker Hand Converter Game 87742246000, Tue Oct 16 4:53:04 2012ET
Poker Stars - Tournament $4.00+$0.40 USD - 627495986 80 No Limit Hold'em (350/700) Full Ring Play Chips, 9 players
View in Poker Hand Replayer

seat 1: nulltore(BB): 5,122
seat 2: Raymund2468(UTG) is Hero: 20,471
seat 3: Teevs69(UTG+1): 20,535
seat 4: Extort10n(UTG+2): 12,590
seat 5: baddada123(MP): 10,482
seat 6: wluczykij8(HJ): 9,944
seat 7: trist385(CO): 4,780
seat 8: jirigeorgurb(BTN): 13,048
seat 9: Hock€rzocker(SB): 7,245

PRE-FLOP: (1,730) Hero is UTG with 9 9
Raymund2468(Hero) calls 700, 4 folds, trist385 raises to 4,695 all in, jirigeorgurb raises to 12,963 all in, 2 folds, Raymund2468(Hero) calls 12,263

FLOP: (32,351) 7 A J (3 players - 2 are all in)

TURN: 2 (3 players - 2 are all in)

RIVER: K (3 players - 2 are all in)
 
dmorris68

dmorris68

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Wait, it just occurred to me from reading the HH header, this is Play Chips. Which probably explains why some HH converters don't like it and why you've not had much response.

Don't expect much serious analysis here because honestly play chip games don't get much respect, including by most of the villains you're up against which makes proper play and analysis pointless.

But ignoring the play chips for the moment...

Without looking too deeply and asking about reads, payout structure, and remaining players, my first impressions are that:
  • First, stop open limping. Especially UTG. You have a hand, raise it up for value. Don't let everybody in cheap where a middle pair is highly vulnerable to a multi-way flop.
  • The shove from trist385 is an easy call with your stack, as with 9bb in late position facing a single limper, his range should be pretty wide there unless you know he's an uber nit who would never shove with less than QQ+ here. Especially if you've been regularly open-limping. Still, with your stack it would be hard to fold here in a HU situation... which this isn't.
  • When jiri shoves behind for nearly 20bb, this puts you in a questionable position for a call. While jiri may have underpairs in his reshoving range that he's trying to isolate a wide SS with, most likely you're flipping at best and crushed at worst. At 1.6:1 you don't have a good price to call and given the effective stacks, flipping here is probably ill-advised.
 
N

Nooneinparticular

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  • When jiri shoves behind for nearly 20bb, this puts you in a questionable position for a call. While jiri may have underpairs in his reshoving range that he's trying to isolate a wide SS with, most likely you're flipping at best and crushed at worst. At 1.6:1 you don't have a good price to call and given the effective stacks, flipping here is probably ill-advised.
This is spot on. It's not a problm to go after the first player, who you either flip or have beaten, rarely losing to. But when jiri comes in the the hand it's a different story.

Suddenly your 99 is at worst up against an overpair, or almost as bad up against 4 overcards, which will beat you an awful lot. Ok so you might beat the bigger stack but lose to the smaller one, which will bring you out roughly even, but this is the sort of spot you need to stay well away from. Someone here is strong, and probably stronger than you!

enjoy
 
dmorris68

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Wait, it just occurred to me from reading the HH header, this is Play Chips. Which probably explains why some HH converters don't like it and why you've not had much response.
... or maybe not. Your original HH doesn't have the Play Chips in the header and it has the $ in front of the buy-in. Looks like the DTB converter stuck that in there for some reason.
 
Loonbat

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RAISE is the biggest thing I can say here. You need to be forcing the action and generally be willing to commit vs these stack sizes on the table.
 
Poker Orifice

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RAISE is the biggest thing I can say here. You need to be forcing the action and generally be willing to commit vs these stack sizes on the table.
Pretty much this ^
You have ~30bb's... but there are alot of re-shove stacks on your table & ss's.

You're utg with 99. If you're gonna play this hand > open with a raise 'but' know in advance which players you'll be calling off to if they shove (basically you should know how you're going to react prior to putting in the initial raise... based on stack sizes & reads of villains on table up to this point).
 
SofaKingCrazy

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I'd like to ask why did you limp pre? Personally, I feel at the very least a min raise was called for here.

Another question would be judging by past plays was it likely that your opponents were playing high A's, is this what you've seen from them earlier?

What do you think was your image was to them?

As far as calling here after two opponents are all in I'm fine with the call if that was what you were hoping for. (i think it was)

I use pokerstove a lot and according to it 99 had 63.6% chance of winning vs these two hands. (they really were cancelling themselves out) You also had the chip advantage with the next highest stack being 63% of your stack. The problem I see is that if you didn't know what your opponents were playing and it was 4 different overcards vs your 99 such as AcQd n' KdJh you're actually behind calling here.

Another factor I see is what stage is this at? Were you ITM, near the bubble or were you a hundred or more from ITM? Depending on what stage this is it might have been best to just let it go to the shovers IMO. I think besides the open limp (never open limp unless you are setting a trap or creating a weak image to exploit later) if it was bubble time I'd be right here playing this hand. Your tournament isn't over if you lose to both, you break even if you win vs the big stack and lose to the shorty, but you would have a smooth ride to final table if the 9's hold.

So are you just upset that you lost? It will happen plenty of times no matter what advantage you started with.

Disclaimer: I'm am nowhere near being a "pro" so take my thoughts for however many grains of salt you wish. I am sure there are flaws in my thinking as well but felt this was a good place to chime in with some of my thoughts.

:evil:

oh... and this was said assuming this is a cash MTT and not just play chips.
 
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