A theoretical hand

Near the start of a $3 10 plr STT, you are in the cut-off with AQs.

All fold to you.
You raise to 4BB
All fold to BB who shoves.

What do you do?

Steve

Pay and pray.

I'd call really, probably someone going crazy.

Steve

Lol probably some guy with AQ that just asked what he should do when one person raises 4x BB

You're only in terrible shape against AK, KK, and AA. And one would think that KK and AA wouldn't shove, especially early on when no table image has been established yet. (Assuming the person knows what he's doing)

Do ya feel lucky? Do ya wanna take a crack at doubling up and taking control of the table? If yes, call.

Depending on how deep my stack is, for me, I may fold in that situation.

Firstly, why are we raising 4x? But given the circumstances I fold unless the opponent has shoved a couple times already. Really no need to get involved here.

Whay the 4x raise? I've been asked this by another coach also. When I start playing poker again a few months ago, I read Daniel Negraneu's SnG system on PokerStars which recommended 4x as the standard and its the habit I've gotten into.
Do you disagree?

Steve

I love the 4XBB raise in level 1. It helps me play tight, and makes it a mistake to set mine against me. FWIW, I keep it at 4XBB for bets over limpers and maybe even a min-raiser. I figure if their hands are poor enough to limp with, I want them to be in the pot with me, not drive them out.

I look forward to disagreements, as I'm not sure this is the right way to go, but it's one I feel comfortable with.

BTW, I'm folding here.

Never said going to 4x was wrong, just wanted an explanation hehe. If the move has a point (other than trying to make people fold pre, since they're the ones we need to pay us) it's a decent path to take...but just saying you do it because negreanu said to isn't enough Probably best for you to re-read why he suggests it for your own knowledge.

I prefer raising smaller in general, in all aspects of the game, because I'd rather play more flops and the bigger we raise the less flops we see. Also if both blinds call my small raise I'm more likely to get more chips on the flop when I hit (or the turn if I decide not to c-bet and hit then).

I'd really be surprised if Negreanu suggested that 4x should be your standard opening raise. He generally advocates a "small ball" style of play in tournaments. Negreanu may have been talking about certain situations that warrant the 4x raise. Do you have a link to his SNG system?

My impression is that the standard opening raise in most online tournies these days is in the range of 2.5x - 3x and it will change as the tournament progresses. I use the term standard loosely because, as Bwammo suggested, you should always know what you are trying to accomplish when you choose a particular bet sizing.

I think that in the situation which you outlined above, it is probably best to fold. We really don't have a read on the villain yet (nor does he have a read on us) this early in the tourney. This is a micro stakes tourney and he could be the type of player who likes to try to double up early with any two cards, but he could just as likely have TT+ and feel that you may be enough of a gambler to call his shove.

To see DN's system, going through the links from the Pokerstars home page like this.... Pokerstars.com - Poker School - Courses - SNG Course - Sit and Go Tournaments ... takes you to his system.

continuing through ..... The Early Phase - Basic PreFlop Play will take you to this page.

http://www.pokerschoolonline.com/art...ginning?page=2

Steve

Thanks for the link, Steve.


If you read the section titled "SIT & GO: AN INTRODUCTION", it says that the "articles are based on the ebook 'Let's Play Poker' by professional poker player and author Lee Nelson." Nelson published this ebook in January 2008.

It is not surprising that he is the one who advocates raising 4 BBs when you are first to enter the pot. In his book "Kill Phil", which was published in October 2005, he advised novice players to play VERY aggressively pre-flop in order to try and negate their more experienced opponents' post-flop skill advantage.

As an interesting aside, when I looked up the book "Kill Phil" on Amazon, I discovered that it was endorsed by everyone's favourite online poker superstar:

"The best book on tournament no-limit hold 'em I've ever read. --Russ Hamilton"

LOL! There you go - an expert if ever there was one!

I hadn't read that anout the origin of the 'pokerschool' articles. After hearing advice from others, I'm toning down my preflop raise to 3x most of the time and sometimes to 2.5x if I thing it may be enough to get people to fold.

Steve