Should I continue adding the $10.00 MTT's in to my grind?

Hi guys,

I used to play SnG's primarily along with a mix of a few MTT's but now my main focus has been MTT's for the past couple of months with the added few SnG's.

Now, I used to be bankrolled for $1.00/$2.00 MTT's/SnG's, but I won $350.00 and ended up withdrawing most of it. I then decided not to tell the wife if I binked a win again because she guilt trips me in to withdrawing it! Beats the whole objective to what I'm trying to achieve, move up stakes and build my BR. Anyway, so I won a tournament about a week ago for $450.00 which gave me a new $700.00 BR so again I started my grind with a range of buy-ins from $1 - $10 in MTT's and $1-$4 in SnG MTT's.



My question is this, should I remove the $10.00 from my grind? I don't "think" the play is much more better than say anything lower, still quite fishy but obviously you notice a $10.00 chunk going from you BR and I do think about it more than the other tables when I'm in a $10.00 game. I know this isn't really good if you're feeling more love for a particular tournament and slightly more "scared" in shoving even though I try to play them exactly the same as my other lower ones. I just don't know if it is going to be good for my BR long term! I don't play many, I play maybe one a night, two maximum. With the scoop games though, I've just played some more $11/$22 games just because it's the scoop! In general though, because I only now have a small BR to what it could of been.

It also "feels" even though I know it's all physiological but I seem to feel I get more unlucky and sucked out of my stack in the higher buy-ins or like the other night 5x better than AVG stack and somehow manage to get it all in with the only other big stack on the table pre flop with my kings vs his Aces lol.

I lost $50.00 last night, I was running quite bad in general coulden't even build a stack more than 12k in any of the tournaments I played. I knew it wasn't going to be my night but because two games were $10.00 i hit my BR more. I'm down to around $640.00 in BR but should I still stick with playing one or maybe two $10.00 games a night with the others $1-$5 buy -ins? I know it isn't good BR managment but it's all about taking shots?

Also, should I grind out my SnG's more than the MTT's ? I have found MTT's much more interesting and fun and SnG's become literally a boring grind after you have won a few dollars in MTT's. The plus side was I could consistently turn over a profit most times in SNG's and wonder if I should add more of the $4.50 180 man which have good pools.

I can't help but doubt my skill when I lose $50.00 in an evening at micro stakes, granted $20.00 was higher stakes and the whole evening was poor in general, just everything I did wasn't working. My raises/bluff raises were being called, best hands being done by the turn/river cards and so on so I know some of it had variance involved I just seem to let it effect me and I might not be writing this thread IF I didn't have the $10.00 involved as I know the MTT are high in terms of variance, just wonder if it's worth it psychological long term for me or wait till I have over $1k to play the $10.00? I feel cheated as I'd have like $1k now If I didn't withdraw so feel I "should" be taking these shots at the $10.00..as I've built my BR from nearly nothing but not properly rolled, does that make sense? Can it really have a massive impact if I continue at the smaller buy-ins along with the 10's?

Suggestions?

Quote:

$1 - $10 in MTT's and $1-$4 in SnG MTT's.

Wondering why up to $10 in Mtts and only up to $4 in Sng Mtts if Mtts have more variance?.

A good advice that someone give me is to not see your BR like $ but like Buyins, if you are playing $10 buyins and lose $50 could sound big for your BR but if say you lose 5buyins it looks pretty standard, happen to me when was playing the $6.50, if was $50 down sound very big for my BR, but if i see it like was 8 buyins sounds much better to your mind, 8 buyins down is standard so then don´t hurt much (then usually was looking to my worst down and find 15 or whatever buyins and make me feel better).

In your case if are mixing $5´s and $10´s then a $50 down is like 7buyins wich is nothing to worry, but if see it like lose $50 then your mind change that to monetary way and hurt in your soul.

About playing the $10´s, consider your avg buyin to get your levels, if are playing $5´s and $10´s then your avg buyin is $7.5, you will have 100 buyins with $750, but they key is to be ok to drop levels if for example go down to $500. If are ok to stick just to $5´s when reach $500 then i think is ok to play your $10´s here and there. If you were playing only $10´s with $700 then is different. (and still will be your money)

Just try to be cool with variance and see it like buyins. If get in tilt then take a break at least for a day, if play with fear then drop the $10´s. Important is to keep a goal, say when reach X amount going to drop to this, or can take shots when reach X amount.

If you do it thinking and set goals then you will be ok if stick to that.

If you are only playing those 1 or 2 per night, I would totally keep at the $10s. Still within Ferguson's BRM, which admittedly is riskier than most here would advise.

What I like to do is total my bankroll at month's end, and set my max buyin for the month. Then I don't even look at the money -- I find this helps; if you bust out, you can sigh and go to bed, and not worry about where you're at day-to-day. Next month, I re-evaluate based on the new balance. (If I'm ahead by a chunk, I withdraw 1/2 my profit for the month and use the adjusted bankroll for my calculations -- this ensures I'm not moving up too quickly due to a good month, and keeps the wife happy)

Reason for MTT's up to $10 is because they are very limited the amount I play. Plus there are more fish in the MTT fields and you have more grinders at the SnG's. Also another factor is that the 2.20 180man turbos are sick in variance as it is, I wouldn't fancy losing (I assume play better too) $15 a time. They don't do $10's for standard I can't see..


And yeah I try to look at it as buy-ins rather than actual dollars. I see it more like points = higher = better, as money indeed does tilt you it just with what happened last night kind of tilted me I don't know why, probably because I knew I busted both my $10.00 quite quickly.

I like the AVG buy-in idea, I might try that

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah that's what I thought, the odd one here and there "shouldn't" have such a huge impact. It's just I ran bad in general so I think that's why I only min cashed in one which I hate doing anyway.

I used to be so nitty and have at LEAST 100 buy-ins and sometimes wouldn't even contemplate playing $2.00 with a $150.00 lol. I just feel the grind is long enough as it is trying to build and I might get lucky and hit a decent score in a $10.00 (they are smaller fields too)

Again, play isn't all to impressive so I don't expect to be totally out played.

I tried the whole not looking at BR and just logging off, but once I did that I sometimes get ahead of myself and lose much more than I should off.

Thakns for the reply.

Maybe drop the $1 games and play more of the $3 - $5 range, mixing in a few $10s. There's a good $8 tourney on Stars with a 500 player cap, pays 54 when it fills. Never had much success in it but it pays out fairly well. Starts at 3:30pm our time but that might be too early. Think it runs at other times too.

Yeah, that's fine. $10 out of $700 is only about 1.5% of your BR. Some people will just play MTTs with 1%, but I think up to 2% is fine.

Im not really playing MTT's all that often, but I think I can relate.
I played micros way to long before taking the plunge discovering how much more money I could make at higher levels.
Im a really conservative player in terms of buy-ins, probably too conservative.
You need to find the right balance between taking risks and not been too bald.
BRM is key, but you need to be ready to take the plunge, and try.
And you need to learn to deal with the swings. Both wins and losses.

^^ This. I don't have an issue at all playing an MTT for 2% of my BR as long as it's not your 'standard' buy-in, which of course for you, this isn't. Also, it's worth when you're taking 'shots' to invest a little more time into knowing who you're up against. When I play a higher buy-in, sure I know there are fish, but in, say the $10's there's also a ton of low-Med stake grinders. Right click on players and search them, see what they're playing and make notes on players. It's fine to take small bankroll risks, but just be sensible about the risks IMO. If the downswing continues then cut them out until you feel comfortable playing them. IMO, BRM is all about hwo comfotable you are. If you're going to make bad plays here because it's 'scared money' then don't play them. Also, review your hands and if there's a difference from, say a $3 game to a $10 and why that is. It's easy to think you're playing your normal game but sometimes, it's not always the case. Also, ship 23bbs with TT from a MP raise and loose call.

Not sure what the fields are like now post Black Friday but typically in $10mtt's on Stars you'll also find alot of the players who are multi-tabling the slightly larger buyin MTT's (up to $50 or more) are also adding in the $10's to their schedules. I use Tournament Shark (I see all stats. of all players on all tables), & can tell you that the deeper you go in the $10's there's often alot of MTT regs. in them & many of the donks are gone (ie. 2/3 of the way into it). I also believe there is (or 'was') a fairly big difference in the level of play in the Stars $1-$5 mtt compared to the $10's. Doubt any of the MTT low-med. buyin regs. are playing the $5 & under whereas many of them play in the $10's (& $3-$5rebuys).
The players in those $4-180's are incredibly bad so I don't really see any comparison at all????
Nothing wrong with adding in 180's while playing MTT's. It's not like you're playing 6max SuperTurbos mixed in with Deepstack MTT's. Lots of MTT players add in 180's (on Stars) or 45's (on FTP). The SNG's are better for a reg. addition to bankroll.
If you're not really into the SNG's but are feelin' into the MTT's then I think your answer is simple (personally I can't get into playing games I don't like... although for bankroll reasons I've done it often, lol).

After Scoop im guessing that $10īs are now out of the question?.

HuH?

Not really no, not made any difference they are still there.

I woul keep the $10's as some are good value like the storm and the big 11, but keep your ABI to around/below 1% of your roll, so $7. So if you played 1 x $11, with 3 x $5.50 gives you an ABI of $6.85 over the 4 games. Also, keep the $1-$4 tourneys aswell.

BRM I follow is ~150BI, MTT swongs are huge

Yes agreed, 100BI should be treated as a minimum for MTT's.

Yeah I'm usually quite strict in terms of BRM. My normal grind consists of $1/$2/$3-$4, meaning I have well over 100 buy-ins. Besides which these are the most active MTT's, but I add most nights the $10.00 50k GTD.

Currently my roll stands me at around $550 after my $500 withdrawal, so yeah like I say I guess 1x$10 per night is ok right along with the others I usually play?

I take shots which I've got 100BI for, so I'd add in the two Early Doubles and the FTP $5 MET KOs, which gives you like 6 tables of $5 MTTs

Eh?

I don't understand you. You take "shots" you have 100buy-ins for? Do you class playing a a tournament you have 100 buy-ins for as a shot and work of 150 buy-ins for "normal"?

Oh and whats your buy-ins for SnG MTT's up to 180 mans?

I don't really follow BRM anymore because I don't actually have a bankroll but when I did I'd follow ~150-200BI for the tournaments I'd play every day, and then if I was going to take a shot at a higher buyin level (say Sunday Storm or whatever) I'd do so with 100BI.

As this shows:

http://www.pocketfives.com/f7/sng-mu...-guide-378221/

MTT BRM tends to be really cautious.

(ATM my backer just tells me what to play, so that's why I don't have a bankroll)

Thanks for the link.

Your backer tells you what to play? So you literally have no funds to play anything? I usually see you playing anywhere between $10-$20 when I see you playing, he must have a lot of faith in you

Eww, according to that chart I should be going anywhere near the 180 man's $4.40...that's kinda sick!

Says a BR of $880 needed for $4.40 MTTS :P That's a bit strict!

He gives me enough to get by day to day but not a full BR which I could follow BRM with, then tells me what average buyin to aim for and what the maximum BI tournament I can play is and leaves me to it

Swings in 180s are 180s are hugeeee, I'd probably say 150BI is OK at that level tho

I guess that answers my questions in another thread I posted about the $4.40's earlier today.

I've played 10 or so maybe more and not cased yet do so consistently with the $2.20 90 mans and take a fair few 1-3rd spots. I didn't think the skill level is any different, so I guess it's just standard varience?

What sort of swings can I expect with them?

I'd say 150BI minimum for 180's they are so swingy it's unreal. I heard someone say on 4 that they wouldn't play the $12 180's with less than 5k which is 400+ buyins. Or was it 50k..not sure

10 is nothing, there's like 50BI up top, if you don't cash 150 in a row then win 3 you are back to even...