Short Stack Question

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MikePokerZ

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Yesterday I was playing a double-up sit n go and I was down to roughly 5 BB's in the small blind and the big blind had about 8. It was folded to me and I had 7-2 suited and shoved with it against the BB. My thinking was that the BB would need to have a semi-premium hand to call more than half his stack with and even if I was called, as long as it's not a pair, I'm only a 2-1 underdog. He called with QJo and I hit a 7 on the flop to win the pot. He called me a moron for shoving with 7-2. Is this a profitable play in the long run or should I have waited for a bigger hand to shove with? Thanks in advance for you advice! :)
 
Lucothefish

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Your shove was fine, his call was awful.
 
left52side

left52side

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Your shove was fine, his call was awful.
I agree his call was awful,but I disagree with the shove.
I think in the small blind and on the bubble there had to be a better spot to shove. I personally would have waited and for a better spot,who knows next hand maybe wake up with monster ,and everyone expect a position shove.
I just think there would have been a better spot to get them in especially on the bubble.
And I never would have called q/j o in that position,but they read it right and was way ahead. why they would call I have no idea but in the end it worked out for you.
 
JusSumguy

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It depends on how the guy has been playing. If he was a nit, or close to it, than I like the play. Otherwise... no.

When you make a play like this, the cards are of no significance. ATC is fine because you're playing the man now, and not the cards.

This is why I ask. What type of man were you up against when you made this play? And since the cards are of no significance, what were your thoughts, based on his play?

-
 
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detourglr

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Myself I think the guy was just upset that you beat him with 2-7.. I wouldnt take it personal..
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

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also it would be nice to know the other stack sizes
 
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inflnlte

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I think it really depends on how many total players were left and what their stacks were. I like the shove because I dont know how many better spots you will get. If I had QJ, I would probably fold unless stack sizes were really high for the other players.
 
dj11

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Because I am a contrarian, I do not like the 7-2 shove, but do like the QJ call.
 
shamanalix

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Myself I think the guy was just upset that you beat him with 2-7.. I wouldnt take it personal..

detourglr basically called it. You won, that's what matters, ignore the sour whine.

Myself, I wouldn't have pushed 2-7 there. Next hand had to be better, and then likely offer more to be won. Foe had nothing much to lose to call you here with anything as foe outchipped you, so being called was to be expected. Hope you went on to take all the whiner's chips.
 
Ronaldadio

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On balance I think your push was dubious but his call was fine.

Dubious push because without knowing u I think I would have called with lots of hands if I had been BB - I had you covered & would have been left with 3 BB`s in this kind of game (antes or not, I don't know)

Your push with whatever way u dress it up is the worst hand in poker :confused: - I think I would have waited for a better spot :)
 
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MIShroomer47

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As above poster mentioned, it just depends on what kind of player he is... if you know your opponent plays premiums only then yea you can shove... and hope for a fold. you were fortunate to take the pot down, and yeah he's gonna be upset. but at 5bbs you gonna get em in eventually, so trying to steal isnt a bad play

I believe that shoving on hands like 72 and 49 and 102 are not going to be profitable in the long run though. you're going to see a lot of call with only 5-7bbs, especially from bigger stacks should you choose to shove on them too, and those hands are not going to hold up often. if you're in the small blind... you might as well wait to see a better hand as you've paid the blinds, and now have free hands to see until your BB... you'll find a hand in there with a better chance of winning.

depending on how close to the money you were, folding to a cash in the DU sngs is worth it, i can't tell you how many times people that don't need to risk chips on the bubble risk them and end up bubbling, while you remain with 500 chips in your stack and make a cash... i love when that happens
 
PLAYINBIG

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I don't think calling with Q/J was a bad call if it was heads up SB vs BB. 41% any over card would come down on flop over his Q/J unsuited.Theres 26% he would pair on flop. There are about a 92% chance any over card would come down over your 7/2 suited on flop. 26% chance you would pair on the flop.Less than 1% you hit flush on the flop. It could of went either way.If the player you were against was tight then I think you made a ok push. If he was loose & was protecting his blinds ,then I would of folded it & waited 1 more hand to be on the button.
 
SicKBeATz

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I don't think calling with Q/J was a bad call if it was heads up SB vs BB. 41% any over card would come down on flop over his Q/J unsuited.Theres 26% he would pair on flop. There are about a 92% chance any over card would come down over your 7/2 suited on flop. 26% chance you would pair on the flop.Less than 1% you hit flush on the flop. It could of went either way.If the player you were against was tight then I think you made a ok push. If he was loose & was protecting his blinds ,then I would of folded it & waited 1 more hand to be on the button.

I agree, I don't understand why some ppl are saying the call was awful. It was blind vs blind and he likely realized that with 5bb's you very well could be shoving atc since that play is pretty common in the late stages of a tournament. The shove isn't terrible but I don't think the call is either. Now if he called you with something like 75 that's a different story.
 
vinylspiros

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The shove was Necessary and IMO a perfect play. the call was also great. end of story. some people are talking like they dont know anything about blind dynamics and the meaning of it being folded down to you in the BB. its a insta shove.id even shove 7 BB maybe even 10 to make it look more convincing. the cards dont matter.all that matters is how close you are to the bubble and what would be the cost to his stack if he called,in order to see how premium the hand has to be for him to even make the call. and also even if you are called with a better hand ,most of the time you will usually have live cards. so the play actually played itself.
you won coulda been vice versa. aint no biggie.
 
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kanselau

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This should be treated exactly like if you were playing a sattelite and are on the bubble.
sb shove +EV ? it depends on the player in the BB if tight then excellent play on the other hand if loose then terrible play. We must consider that 1 we are on the bubble , 2 BB has us covered ( we are risking elimination , BB is not ). 3 consider other stack sizes , if for instant UTG +2 has three blinds left , then its a fold. The call with QJ it also depends how does villain perceive you , you are short , he has you covered and if your are not a nit than you could be pushing with any two, right ? The shove would have only been neccassary if you were on the buuble in a normal sit and go where the rize structure is heaverly weighted to top , not when 1st and 5th place gets the same prize, which is what double ups are .
 
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MadMaddie

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I agree his call was awful,but I disagree with the shove.

And I never would have called q/j o in that position.
If it was a bad call by the big blind and if you yourself would not have called there in that spot wouldn't that mean it was a good spot for the player in the small blind to shove there?

This game was a double or nothing wasn't it? I would think the player in the big blind would need to have a very good hand to make a call here because they are likely not in jeopardy with 8 big blinds on the bubble in one of those games and by calling they are only helping all the other players on the table.

I think I would really like to be on tables with all the players here who like the call here by the big blind. I do not know very much about those double up games but I am pretty sure you want to be pretty tight when calling.
 
ScottieDuncan

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He was looking for something for nothing. Good shove. He should have thought twice about calling you. There was 8 overs out there.
 
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