Rebuy tourney (but not re-buying)

Should you play in a re-buy tourney if you have absolutely no intention of re-buying?

Curious if ya'all think that might give you too big a disadvantage against the bigger stacks.

I always play a rebuy tourney (which I hardly ever play) like its really the buy in, a rebuy, and the addon. I will rebuy right away to have a double stack and then add on.

*So even if I can play $3 mtts based on my bankroll, I would only be able to play a $1 rebuy mtt.

You will probably find that many/most members will disagree with my response.

I don't play rebuy tournaments very often, but when I do, I never rebuy. Here's my rationale:

1) By their nature, play in rebuy tournaments is much looser than in regular tournaments. My particular style is always the same - tight. That means that when I get a hand, there is a much greater liklihood that I will be paid off bigger and better than in a regular tournament. This puts me in a better position to cash without the need for rebuying.

2) Rebuy tournaments, even at the minimum cash levels, pay much better than regular tournaments. From an ROI standpoint, that makes rebuy tournaments (without the rebuy) much more attractive.

Again, I fully expect my opinion to be a minority one.

This is what I was wondering about, all the crazy rebuying (all-in/rebuy, all-in/rebuy) would make the payoff so much nicer... thanks.

I personally avoid rebuy tourneys, IMO it's a disadvantage for someone (um, me ) who's trying to play TAG against a LAG player with no worries since they can just rebuy; I'm a Nit on the road towards TAG & am not to the point where I feel comfortable yet changing up my play to fit this type of field.

On a side note, I knew Daniel Negreneau held the WSOP rebuy record (48 for a 2006 $1K tourney) but I didn't know, until today, that Layne Flack won his 2007 $1500 PLO bracelet & $577K in part to $33K in rebuys.

Well, my strategy may have to change if they pay off like this

WEIRD!

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I have a friend that does very well in rebuys. He does not rebuy and plays like he normally does. He has taken down a few this month with 1st place a few times also, without rebuying. X

Not rebuying in a rebuy tournament is like folding aces when you're dealt them. The whole point of your tournament game should center around chip accumulation, and its a hell of a lot easier to accumulate chips if your stack is the same size as everyone else's.

also, always add-on, unless you are in like 1st-20th (depending on the number of entrats etc.....) and are a huge chip leader...I.e. if you are right around the average, you should never not add on.

^^^Exactly. To each their own and if people want to enter them with the intent of not rebuying then best of luck, because you will really need it.

The point is to be looser during the rebuy period and accumulate chips. What better chance to get an awesome chip lead early on for when the rebuy period is over. You have a greater chance to make the final table because your very large chip stack means power.

I also agree about always adding on.

Yeah it makes no sense not to rebuy, and when others do it just increases the prize pool. The daily dollar is pretty much the only rebuy I play but they can be very profitable.

short answer - no, you shouldn't.

^^this. You are giving away a clear edge if you do not rebuy.

It is possible to win without rebuying, and some do. It is also possible to cut your garden lawn with a pair of scissors, but few would think it the best method.

So is the consensus opinion here to elect one re-buy, or to keep re-buying when you bust? I often play the .10 FT rebuy with the $1K guarantee; most nights I don't re-buy, the play is so loose that if you wait for a good hand in position, you quickly put yourself out of re-buy status. If you do make the money, your ROI for your dime is usually >1000%.

Here's my question. I see some people in this game making so many rebuys and double rebuys that they have to make the final table just to break even. That seems crazy. So how many re-buys is too many? More than one? Is there some simple guideline relating number of re-buys to the minimum payoff? Given that the payoff numbers are constantly increasing, this has to be a complex decision.

bd

The conventional approach to a rebuy tourney is this:



However, the one you mention sounds (I am not familiar with it) like an oddity, with an unusually low buyin and a comparatively very high guarantee. Conventional methods aren`t necessarily best in an unusual situation, and one must be guided by experience.

Where I play you can't start with a double stack in rebuys but can only rebuy when you are at zero chips. I prefer this. In this case there is no reason to rebuy if rebuying will give you less than 20x big blind. For add-ons you are crippling yourself if you don't add on.If you are in 12th place at the break out of 40 people left and you don't add on you will probably drop to about 30th.

Just consider this: By rebuying more you are putting more chips on the table that you are going to play at for a large portion of the tournament. And if you are the most skilled player at the table, and your table has more chips than any other, you're putting yourself in a position to have the biggest stack going into the mid/bubble stages of the tournament.

Your goal during the rebuy period is to have the biggest stack at your table, and you should take risks to acquire it.

Of course you'll be at a huge disadvantage.

When I first began playing online poker I thought Rebuys were huge donkfests (never played rebuys live either) this is because I didn't understand at the time what a rebuy tournament is really all about.

Basically a 'rebuy' is a deepstacked tournament that starts after the rebuy period is over. If you're going to try to play a deepstack tournament while sitting on a shortstack you will have big problems (obv)... the hands you'll be able to play will be really limited. In deepstack tournaments you have implied odds to play a wider range of hands in position (SC's, any prs., etc.).
I watched a decent rebuy tournament training video series and just from watching the first portion of it (the 'rebuy period') I learned a great deal..... mostly 'what a rebuy tournament is really all about'. What had previously appeared as retarded play in early levels began to make much more sense.
An extreme example is a live rebuy tournament that Daniel Negreanu played (i'm sure there'll be a bunch of members here who'll be able to exact quote the tournament... but my numbers will be off.. but just trying to relay a concept/idea). In that touranament Daniel rebought a great number of times (I don't recall the exact amount...something like 47 or 62 times... a huge amount anyways). His comment about it was something like, "wanted to get alot of chips into play on my table & figured I had an edge to get most or all of them back anyways as the tourney progressed"
Not sure if he won it in the end but do know he went deep in it and even though he made a ridiculous number of rebuys, it was still profitable.
This ^ is obviously an extreme example for rebuy tournaments... (and not accurate as mentioned).

Knowing what number of rebuys in comparison to payouts is also key (obviously dozens of them are probably not recommended, lol). I've got a friend who took down the $3rebuy on Stars and when I asked him how many rebuys he said "only 9". As far as how many would be optimal... of course 'it depends', lol.

Taking a one bullet approach to a rebuy is not the recommended method to play in them... BUT.. if you're looking to get lucky (as far as bein' a cardrack in early levels) then for sure you could try taking a shot at it (if you get dealt some big hands and are on a fairly loose, active table... not one filled with a bunch of other 1-bullet approach players) then you do have a chance at being competitive in it.... I just wouldn't adopt the approach as my own personal way of playing in them.

I wouldn't personally play a rebuy tournament without rebuys.

When looking at the amount of rebuys the following factors are what I can come up with:
-Structure (Usually a slow structure means less rebuys)
-Other players at the table (If it is a tough table then I am not as exited to rebuy)
-How you are feeling/How you are playing (No shame in quitting if you are playing or feeling bad)
-Amount of players
-Prize pool (At what amount of rebuys you can make a decent ROI)

I think that the optimal amount of rebuys will come to you with experience and depends on your skills and style. For example I am quite confident in playing the slow 3 and 5 dollar rebuys on iPoker with an average of 1 rebuy and 1 add-on. So far I haven't taken one down, but I have been very deep many times which is a good indicator that I am doing something right.

The reason why I do so well in the $5 rebuys on cake is because 40-50% of the people DON'T REBUY!!!!

I consider tournaments with rebuys and addons on fair struggle corresponding principles... Everyone should be in equal conditions...
Though if you well play, such tournaments with a heap of a fish become for you very interesting))))))

yep, i like rebuy tournys...
Wat i do is to stick to rebuy games which have small buyins like say 1$ or 2 $ buyin rather than going for 5$ or 11$ one...
And it mostly depends on ur bankroll as to which stakes u should be playing...
The main disadvantage is for the first break, the eliminated players are very less, but after that break its good going....
And many try to donk play during the first period, just going allin with even an average hand.So i play rock in this period and i have been doing well...
Dont see rebuy games of 1$ as a 1$ game, instead see it as a 4$ or 5$ game....

I always rebuy at the start of the tournaments because it allows me to play more loose than I usually do and build a large stack. But that doesnt mean playing like a donk by going all in every time. Normally if I bust out after 2-3 rebuys I just quit and go find another tournament. I agree that rebuy tournaments offer a great ROI because of the people who rebuy like 10 times.

Is it any different if you're playing a re-buy tournament where your initial 1000 chips are .10 and from then on they're .50 each? I know there's one like that on FTP. I could see playing that one and trying to double up quickly and then if you bust just leave since the rebuy costs so much?

If the structure is as you say then I agree that rebuys seem to offer poor value for money. Logically, you would get better value (if you bust) by saving your money to join the next tourney.

Depends on the cost, as illustrated by this post. I never rebuy in this tournament. I try to donk double up, if I miss, I'm out. But when I hit, my chips have doubled for free. That means I only need to hit more than 20% of the time for this play to be +EV.

Doubling your chips this way costs just $0.10 for the attempt, doubling with a rebuy costs $0.50.

I never play RT because this tournaments mismatch principles of fair definition of the strongest, therefore I play only freeze-out. One more reason on which I do not play rebuy, that there is full of fishes of maniacs is, and I like to play with strong contenders. I can make unique exception for games with add-on.