Poker theory? Basic math? Common sense? Are you a poker savant?

It occurs to me that many may be poker savants. When I read articles and books on strategy I find that when I've played my best I've been using some of the math and concepts without knowing what they are. Sure it's not as exact, or even as good a tool as knowing exactly where you stand, but yeah, it happens. It's not genius, but it is inadvertently doing the right thing.

Accidental M-ratio - Accidental M-ratio is when you're using M-ratio without even knowing what it is. You look at your stack, and count up how many orbits you have left based on the blinds(and later antes). You may not calculate it exactly but you will come pretty close. You don't realize there's a mathematical formula but you just count it up to the closest 10 or you round up when it gets really big. You then adjust your play based in part on that stack. Nobody told you to, you just knew.

Accidental Q-factor - It's when you instinctively keep the information window open towards the final table bubble, or in the case of a satellite which pays the same over several places towards the prize bubble. You use your place in the tournament wisely. Sometimes abandoning M-ratio all together. When 100 spots pay equally it's better to just survive unless your Q-factor's high. You know how weak or strong you are and what you need to do to get where you want to be. It's an accident, but explained by Q-factor or relative position in the tournament. Nobody told you to, you just did it.

Accidental ICM - Ah, here's a good one. Helps if most or all of the stacks are about even. Ever fold AK to a good sized raise and/or reraise pre-flop when close to the cash? Would it have cost you a good sized chunk of your chips to be in the hand? How about folding 99(same situation)? Ever make that good sized raise pre-flop based on being first to act and realizing the rest of the table would probably fold to you? In a very simple way you were using ICM on accident.

That's all very simplified, but frequently effective. At the bottom you can play "close enough". Heck some people play worse than "close enough" higher up.

Very astute observation.

M Ratio, Q Factor, and ICM? I can't even define these terms. Yet based on reading numerous posts and accompained by playing countless hours, I now understand the basic concept of what they are and their importance.

I'm definitly not a poker savant, but do agree and can relate to your post. I would like to be able to do the math and be much more technical in all aspects of the game, but would never give up the common sense, instinct, gut feeling, or ideas and stragtegy learned from playing.

Thanks for the post. Kind of validates or at least confirms what I have been thinking for some time now. Hey, maybe i can be a Savant someday too?

I'm not a savant either, not in the genius sense. But doing the right thing without the conscious understanding of it being right, just sensing that it is right, would be an example of savant-like behavior.

Besides I typed the accidental M-ratio bit wrong. You round up blinds when that's quicker, and round down chips when that's quicker. Sometimes it's just easier to work with nice round numbers, but rounding up the blinds and rounding down chips seems to keep you from having too few chips. Like I said. Not exact, but b4 you know the math, or even after you know it, but you're in a pinch for time, this is so much better than nothing.

Never really read into these concepts as well, just know them from this forum and some other articles. It's pretty much what I do too. Would it be wise for me to look into these concepts?

It's wise to read everything you can handle. I've tried to read some books that were just so geared towards left brain thinking that I just couldn't handle them. I believe we all use our right and left brains, but most tend to use our dominant half(not unlike how we use our hands). My right half definitely dominates.

Now when it comes to M-ratio, Q-factor, and ICM, there are easy to read and understand articles available online. They bridge that gap between left and right brain thinking.

For a long time I had a kind of short circuit when it came to the rule of 4 and 2. It was the phrasing in lessons that threw me. They said count your outs, then multiply by 4 on the flop and 2 on the river. It was the word count that threw me. I took it literally and found my right brain taking over and visualizing my outs instead of getting an accurate count. Then one day it just clicked. Don't count my outs, calculate them(and the math's easy enough that even I can do it). Now I can calculate them, though the odds part is at times iffy at the bottom(sometimes you have to ignore the odds because of how the game's played at the bottom). But at least I know how to figure my outs now and compare them to my odds.

Other things that help a right brain thinker are charts, graphs, and calculators. Though they're not made just for us, they give us visuals that we can work with. Try the free tools at http://pokerprolabs.com. There you can check out a series of sngs or mtts you've played in. Complete with a graph and full percentages of where you placed at a particular level. The percentages help to fine tune your tournament game and strategy. They're sort of diagnostic. So over 50 - 100 sngs or mtts, you can locate your weak spot(s) and know better what to work on.

I'm liking the graph(not unlike sharkscope or even pokertracker's but I'm not paying for poker junk until poker junk can pay for itsself). I can check out samples(tiny but still) of how I do at different stakes and speculate as to why my graphs look so nutty. I noticed the better I can afford a level the less wild and spiky the graph looks. I saw this at Cake too. There my graph was undulating(and if I weren't so bad at resisting temptation I'd still have a roll there) instead of spiking wildly.

Their calculator's my favorite because I can use it without knowing anybody else's hole cards + it's for 2 to 9 players. I use it in a combo with hand histories to help with future tournaments.

How does looking at one's results on Topshark let one know where one's leaks are? I think this is about as far from savant as you can get (sorry.. but it's how I think).
Most players think they know alot more than they do. If one can keep this in mind they're heading in the right direction.

I don't believe you have to use a mathematical formula to understand these concepts and if you do have the "math" head for it it is of no value to use a formula to come up with an exact figure and place it somewhere on a chart. These techniques are a lot more important for people who do not have good math heads and need a figure to work with to make good decisions. This is also similar to how I feel about tracking devices. The one thing I find interesting in these tracking devices is the ability to study your own results and find the kind of plays that are winning you money or losing you money and help to deal with leaks in your game. Although i believe I am doing that by instinct anyway, for the first time I am actually thinking about purchasing one. By the time I make that decision they will probably be outlawed on most sites.From what I have read cake already does not allow them and cake is one of two networks I play on so....

I never said that looking at Topshark had anything to do with being any sort of a savant. I said that doing the right thing without the conscious understanding of it being right, just sensing that it is right, would be an example of savant-like behavior.

I believe I said that Topshark(or anything that keeps track of results for that matter) along with the use of a calculator(mentioned my current favorite), and review of hand histories can help you to plug leaks. By looking at when you bust out the most, and then reviewing the hand histories along with a calculator, yes it can help to plug leaks. It can help with everything from certain types of hands one overvalues to problems with strategy.

Furthermore it's fairly obvious to anyone that I was using the term "savant" in the sense of "idiot savant" or "savant syndrome". In that respect I was certainly using the term properly.

Yes Im a poker savant.

Poker Theory: other people must make more mistakes than me.

Basic Math: If I have an inside straight flush draw on a paired board and I think my opponent has a full house-then with one card to come I still have a chance to win.

Common Sense: A set beats top pair.

Am I a poker savant: ofcourse ^^^^^^^ ; - ]

the formulas, be it savant or studies and calculated are a help in the game. Don;t forget though, your opponents play is important too. If the player on my right consistently folds unless they have a superior hand, their 3bb or 4bb bet may be telling you more than any formula pre and post flop. I may fold with an A 10 suited if that player bets big pre flop. I may also bet 2bb if that player limped in and it my only opponent, especially if he/she is the sb. How tight or loose are the players that are staying in that hand is as important as the formulas and odds.