Playing Ax....

magicius

magicius

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Hello ppl
Is Ax that popular to shove with?
Today i lost; kk vs ATo. JJvsA7s and QQ vs A5o...

In long terms is it good to shove with Ax?


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Jblocher1

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Your question is very vague.... Would need a lot more info on scenarios.
 
magicius

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Ok scenarios like;
You are deep in tourney,you hold ATo for an example,2 or 1 guy in front of you, is it good choice to shove with those cards? Or to call a shove with it?



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W

Weissr

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Hello ppl
Is Ax that popular to shove with?
Today i lost; kk vs ATo. JJvsA7s and QQ vs A5o...

In long terms is it good to shove with Ax?


Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk
The answer to your question is both yes and no. A lot of it depends on stack size and your opponent's range. Ie. if you have ~10BB, any Ax is almost always a shove. If your stack size is 50BB, Ax is probably not an allin preflop.

I am guessing you are playing lower stakes where most players down there think Ax is the nuts. Losing with those hands you posted just happens, 1 in 3 times so in the long run you are winning 2/3 times and making a profit.
 
magicius

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Ye indeed they think A5o is nuts,i mostly played cash games,and shoving ranges a bit different,
Anyone maybe have a link to some shove chart based on how many bb u have?

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Jblocher1

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Ok scenarios like;
You are deep in tourney,you hold ATo for an example,2 or 1 guy in front of you, is it good choice to shove with those cards? Or to call a shove with it?



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Well.... Stack size? Blind level? Table "texture" and dynamics? Still far too vague
 
Jacki Burkhart

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#1 shoving with Ax is certainly better than calling with it

#2 if stack sizes dictate all in preflop poker, then Aces are a powerful card to have on your side. because: You're only in real trouble vs. a better ace AND holding one makes it less likely that somebody else is holding one. If you're not up against a better Ace you'll have at least 30-60% equity including vs. KK. Even vs. a better ace you usually have about 25% equity (unless it's AA).

To put it in perspective, 30% equity is about the same as flopping a bare flush draw. most of us, if short stacked would be pretty happy to get it all in on the flop with a flush draw.
 
K

kanselau

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Hello ppl
Is Ax that popular to shove with?
Today i lost; kk vs ATo. JJvsA7s and QQ vs A5o...

In long terms is it good to shove with Ax?


Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

lol do you play on pokerstars by any chance?
 
K

kanselau

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Ax is great to shove with when low on chips . Early pos mostly fold unless your critically short.
Depending on situation, stack size It is usually a fold/shove when your not the first one in the pot.
Ax becomes stronger with later positions BTN CO etc
Should be very rarely calling with this hand. Rase or fold. Unless calling a shot stacks all in from late position , and blind/blind situations.
Almost never call a raze with it when deep stacked , has reverse implied odds.
 
magicius

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Well.... Stack size? Blind level? Table "texture" and dynamics? Still far too vague

Ok let me give example from last night

It was hot 0.55 turbo on ps
I was 235/1000 and it was after bubble,table was with all people similar stacks to mine,and play was shove or fold...
~20bb stacks with 500/1000 blinds
I got out after calling a shove with KK,he had A6o and hit an ace on board...
Few hands before i also was getting Ax hands an i fold them
So i want to see if i should shove that kind of hands
I play mostly cash,and did play stt and mtt sngs,few times when i played mtt i went deep so i am thinking to give more shots in mtt.
Playing Ax in mtt is quite different than in cash,so i want to learn that part :)

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BearPlay

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Agree that there are a lot of "high card heroes" out there in smaller stakes who fall in love with Axo. As suggested, your play depends a lot on M ratio, SPR, blinds, stack sizes, table reads, etc.

Maybe this will help as a guideline:

d77506a4cbd37655fc42394fb613bded.png
 
H

hffjd2000

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At sng and mtts- its okay to shove A because if you lose, you lose only your registration buy-in.
At cash game- its bad to shove A because if you lose, you will lose your posted real-money buy-in.
 
magicius

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Agree that there are a lot of "high card heroes" out there in smaller stakes who fall in love with Axo. As suggested, your play depends a lot on M ratio, SPR, blinds, stack sizes, table reads, etc.

Maybe this will help as a guideline:

d77506a4cbd37655fc42394fb613bded.png

Thats helpful,thanks

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horizon12

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Hello ppl
Is Ax that popular to shove with?
Today i lost; kk vs ATo. JJvsA7s and QQ vs A5o...

In long terms is it good to shove with Ax?


Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

If less 10 bb , MP and all fold, you can easy shove Ax this +EV in SNG, but in MTT you can find fold....
 
P

Pandaaaaa88

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if i've got lower than 10bb i push with any aces, ofc without any raises befor
 
magicius

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I lost many times against tards with Ax... Its so annoyin... you get KK and he shoves his A6o and hit that stupid Ace... Oh boy how much i hate A...

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chronical

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Well any pair that you have will have will gave 3to1 advantage so it's better to play them than to shve an Ax, but the qustion here is will you notice that. Any time You will win 22+ all-in against Ax you will be okey, but any time Ax will kick your pair you will think that life is against you and poker room is trying to take all your money =)
plus it matters what you play if you lose your stack in SNG or MTT to Ax with a pair you will be in wors shape than if you would losу it in Cash (and even more with MSS)
 
PokerFunKid

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Depends on howmany blinds you have, your position and action before you.

Lets say you have 15 bbs and your in the btn. UTG opens someone flats and you have a5o easy fold. But lets say you're in the btn and theres no action before you you can easily shove it into the blinds. It is profitable to shove Ax. But you shouldn't shove blind. Theres some spots you fold and you shove.
 
Aces2w1n

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Could Kx hands be played similar to Ax hands?
 
PokerFunKid

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Ok let me give example from last night

It was hot 0.55 turbo on ps
I was 235/1000 and it was after bubble,table was with all people similar stacks to mine,and play was shove or fold...
~20bb stacks with 500/1000 blinds
I got out after calling a shove with KK,he had A6o and hit an ace on board...
Few hands before i also was getting Ax hands an i fold them
So i want to see if i should shove that kind of hands
I play mostly cash,and did play stt and mtt sngs,few times when i played mtt i went deep so i am thinking to give more shots in mtt.
Playing Ax in mtt is quite different than in cash,so i want to learn that part :)

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk

Just unlucky if KK lose there. But most important imo to consider to shove Ax is the action before you and your position. Try to post your hands (BOOM) in those situations and we can easier explain what to do.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Could Kx hands be played similar to Ax hands?

not really because so many people like to call with Aces. The thing about pushing with a hand like A2 is that by holding an Ace you've reduced the possibility that somebody behind you holds one.

Not so when you jam with K2, they can still wake up with Ax just as often as ever.

now, there certainly ARE situations where the stacks get small enough or your position gets late enough and it is profitable to jam any K.

For instance 8bb effective stacks and it folds to my Button or SB I am jamming Kx+, Q5+ any 2 cards 9 or higher. obviously pairs.
 
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