Playing against LAG 3 bettor

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kanselau

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Need some advice on how to play against a LAG player.
Was playing in a live torney the other day and was absolutelly card dead, so was playing rather tight. As the blinds kept esculating I needed to start playing something, so I started playing marginal hands from time to time as I wasnt picking up anything at all for the past 2 hours.
The only problem was the LAG on my direct left - I had about 30BB and villain had about 50bb , everytime it folded to me in HJ CO or BTN , I would try to go for a steal with hands like Q10 A4 JQ 78s ETC these hands were like the nuts the way I was running , now everytime id raise , villain 3 bet , I made the bets at 2.5 BB and villain would 3 bet to 6-7BB. Because the hands I was raisng were marginal and I would be out of position , I would fold 90% of the time.
Ofcourse villain picked up on this and kept 3 betting every single time. So I decide to adjust and 4 bet light , his response to this was 5 bet all in .
After getting 3bet all day this hand came up about 15 min before the end of day 1
Im BTN with A6o and open to 2.5 x BB , villain in SB (Efective stack is 38 BB and has has me covered) , 3bets to 6BB , I respond with 4 Bet 13 BB, villain 5bet all in .
Reads on villain 3 bets heaps in position , showed a bluff on the river , on a 4 card to a straight board witch he 3 bet pre with 7 3 o. preety tought to play against post flop will put the pressure on.
Now I do realise that I shouldnt realy 4 bet a third of my stack and fold to a 5 bet , but this guy was seriously taking the piss with the 3bets , and my thinking was at the time , if I 4 bet to 13BB he cant really flat OOP , I put him in a situation where he either folds or re raises all in . If he decides to 5 bet and I call his stack is really crippeld, and at day one almost over I dont think he wants to risk his tornament life.
Any suggestions , should have I folded again in this situation or called the 5 bet all in .
Thanks in advance
 
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WiZZiM

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shove it back in his face much earlier on in the peace. go with your gut instict, he gets as many good hands as you do, so don't believe him and 4bet him earlier. it shows you wont take any bullshit, forces him to a decision, and hopefully makes him fold and give you the upper hand for the rest of the tournament. you will always be on the losing end of this battle as he will have postion, but the worst thing you can do is continue to play the same hoping he will fold.

if you are on the button and its unraised, just limp in, it usually throws these player types off, they can only raise which basically means that they are creating a big pot when oop. it also gives you ammo to re-raise preflop, people genearlly have no idea what to do in this spot, and it gets you extra chips from his raise.

i suppose you could just tighten up, play stronger hands and 4bet him/get it in lighter. im not a huge fan of this as it kind of plays into his game plan, and he always knows where you are at.

if this is live it's possible hes picking up on some things at the table. but in general, either tighten up preflop, or keep it going preflop but put pressure back on him much, much earlier, basically when you first think hes full of shit.
 
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WiZZiM

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i left out calling preflop. you can do things like call pre, then check/raise flops after he does his mandatory c-bet. Since he will miss the flop as much as you, this should work nicely.
 
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kanselau

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i left out calling preflop. you can do things like call pre, then check/raise flops after he does his mandatory c-bet. Since he will miss the flop as much as you, this should work nicely.
Thanks for your suggestions Wizzim ,
Wether we call then raise his C-bet or 4 bet pre these opponents are making us play a high varience game. So we should be prepared to play for all our chips then , even with a marginal hand such as A6 ?
I dont think tightening up anymore was an option here , blinds + anties going up soon only 30 min blinds and like you said we would be playing into his game and he folds when we finally get a hand.
Will try limping on the BTN thing might confuse him, cheers :cheers:
 
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sylpoker1

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I think i might have missed what you ended up doing in that situation? Did you call or fold? I was just wondering what happened .If it was just you and the villian left in that last hand ,where you had the A6,you possibly were ahead, since he was raising you every single time. GL,I will check back to see also.
 
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kanselau

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I think i might have missed what you ended up doing in that situation? Did you call or fold? I was just wondering what happened .If it was just you and the villian left in that last hand ,where you had the A6,you possibly were ahead, since he was raising you every single time. GL,I will check back to see also.
Fold - I know hes 3 betting heaps , but in this last hand
1. he 3bets out of position , so hes building a pot out of position witch is not a good idea
2. this is the first time i have played back at him with a 4 bet , so he must think I have something
I actually asked him after the tornament the next day , he claims that he cant remember what he had but that I was ahead.
 
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WiZZiM

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it's slightly higher variance. what you really want to do is 4bet him much earlier in game. The pot will be smaller as the blinds will be smaller, and you send a clear message that you won't put up with it. if you let him have his way, he fleeces you of chips time and time again. The latter statement is going to be far more variance than putting in a 4bet once or twice early on. if he still isn't playing ball after you 4bet him a few times, then it's time to just label him as a retard and just play your hands face up. open less often, and be willing to go all in with holdings you wouldn't against other players.

ideally of course, you have him on your right and then you can do the same thing to him ;)

the button play isn't really to confuse him so much. it's to take his weapon of 3betting away from him. he can then only raise, meaning we keep the pot relatively small and still have plenty of room to outplay him postflop. If you are not confident postflop, then i'd suggest not trying this (having said that, the only way to really get better postflop is to put yourself in these situations and learn from them ).
 
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zingbust

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Do everything you did, except when you 4-bet him do it for all your chips. Do this with anything at all that has a good chance of connecting with the flop even if it's not all that great. He's a good player, so he will fold to that all-in 4-bet enough times to make this play profitable over the long run, 100 tourneys or more. High variance? Absolutely, but so is any form of tournament poker.
 
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