Is my thinking wrong here? SnG

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PresidentWu

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OK I was playing a Sit and Go blinds were maybe 100-200 I think. Maybe 5 or 6 players left. I had 1400 and was just 1 after the big blind.

I look down and see AK ok re-raise to 900.

The guy right after me has around 3000 chips and pushes all in.

I call because I have no choice. Its AK vs 99 and I win the hand. Then I said why would you call with just 99. He said he knew he had the higher odds. Then I said I raised 900 and you didn't think I could have any pock pair above you. Even if I had 10 J... Sure you would start with the odds but if a Jack or 10 hit you would be in trouble. Then he said I was terrible.

For me one of my rules as a big stack is NEVER really call an all in if the value is too high unless its AA or possibly KK.

After the 900 raise he should have said "well pocket 9's are good. But why risk it. Even if I lose im at 1600 but the blinds are big and again the guy is representing a big hand." Instead he calls and 2 hands later is out.

If he had folded it would have cost him nothing and he could have kept on.

Anyways would any of you guys go an all in with 99 if the blinds were 100-200 and a guy pre flop raised 900? and you had around 3000 chips?

I just think his play is an unecessary risk.
 
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houtlijm

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hey man, imo calling with 99 in middle/late stage of tournament is just fine. your play of raising 900 rings a bell, big slick ! a lot of players overplay this hand preflop so it becomes obvious it isn't a very big pair. would you do the same with QQ ? try to think in his place and check at your own play with some suspicion. the 99 call really wasn't bad at all
 
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jj20002

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well that´s a sng not a sunday million, one can call with any two any raise even shove, allin doesn´t matter is a sng, KK limp doesn´t matter, AK one does whatever, fold, limp, raise or shove,

i have seen hands where 5 or 6 players go allin, and also seen sequences of hands from the very beginning (more than 5 in a row) where at least two players are allin preflop, so one has to take chances sometimes too,

any pair, any suited, any connectors, broadways, Ax, Kx, J5 (yes, some people say they have luck with it), 7-2 (players who like to defy the odds), all of them are enough to go allin, to reaise, to reraise, to 3bet, to 4 bet,

sng is the place one sees the impossibble becomes possible
 
JusSumguy

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Heads up? With 99? ... I like it.

-
 
micalupagoo

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he had good odds, pockets beat ak over 50% of the time
plus you are smaller stacked at that stage- where many people would shove weaker hands, if you had a8( many do shove with that) he really has good odds
you do have to take risks sometimes too
was it reg speed or turbo?
you have to learn to open your range a bit too, especially deeper in if you want to win
gl
 
naruto_miu

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99 looking at a 4.5xRaise pre (I personally don't like it), I mean if the 4.5xRaise is really nothing compared to my blinds than I'll call but in this case it was 30% of his stack really not worth it

This is just me though
 
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jsaw

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First he wasn't really shoving he was betting 500 - that is what you had left after betting 900. He has a pocket pair of nines and given this is a SNG may not have a lot of history on you. He knows you are pot committed and will shove the rest of your chips on the flop no matter what happens so he plays back at you. With your 7BBs and his 15 BBs with your two hands I would expect the money to go in every time. Only question for me was why you didn't shove in the first place.
 
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PresidentWu

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I raised to 900 he had nothing on the board. Also I wouls play aces or kings the same. But the problem is why raise all in if you had no blinds or anything on the board? Even if im like 45% why wouldnt a player wait to get a flop or just let it go. To me as a big stack with 5 players left i let the small stacks fight for the crumbs. There is no problem with him betting its just when a guy leads out with a monster bet it makes no sense to push. Terrible play by him
 
micalupagoo

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raising to 900 might as well be a shove, would you fold if you missed the flop?
his is not a terrible play- one I may or may not make- very villain dependent
have you checked his stats?
and you wrote "For me one of my rules as a big stack is NEVER really call an all in if the value is too high unless its AA or possibly KK"
wrong-especially deeper in, vs sm stacks and against lags
possible KK?- allin every time, you fold ak,qq...???
 
EvertonGirl

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I believe the guy who shoved your 900 raise knew he had the higher odds because if you had a monster you would of shoved as you only had 5 M's. I don't think he knew you had AK but I believe he was putting you on a marginal hand and going heads up with 99 isn't bad.

I could be wrong but that's how I see it :)
 
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tiltmeister

I raised to 900 he had nothing on the board. Also I wouls play aces or kings the same. But the problem is why raise all in if you had no blinds or anything on the board? Even if im like 45% why wouldnt a player wait to get a flop or just let it go. To me as a big stack with 5 players left i let the small stacks fight for the crumbs. There is no problem with him betting its just when a guy leads out with a monster bet it makes no sense to push. Terrible play by him
He's shoved because he's hoping for head's up against AK. Medium pair is about 53/47 against AK. In the event you have AA, KK, QQ, he's got 12% chance of hitting a set.

Oh, and because he knows having people go all-in at the beginning of a tournament puts some folks on tilt.
 
el_magiciann

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Pushing with pair 9's wasn't that bad, he is actually in favour against a lot of hands, and your stack is 7bb so you easily could have even worse hand than AK it is good play by both of you, you cant fold AK with 7bb remaining he can afford to call with his middle pair and the coinflip is happening. :)
 
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matt0216

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I raised to 900 he had nothing on the board. Also I wouls play aces or kings the same. But the problem is why raise all in if you had no blinds or anything on the board? Even if im like 45% why wouldnt a player wait to get a flop or just let it go. To me as a big stack with 5 players left i let the small stacks fight for the crumbs. There is no problem with him betting its just when a guy leads out with a monster bet it makes no sense to push. Terrible play by him

Nobody is calling a 900 raise just so they can see a flop and potentially fold. That's ridiculous.

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Raising to 900 is terrible. Just shove.

I'd say him jamming 99 here is fine. Unless he has a read that you're a huge nit (which you may be), or you only raise premiums to a weird amount like 900 then it's fine.
 
Arjonius

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Where's the problem getting less than half his stack in with 99? What's he supposed to think your range is when you don't simply shove your 7bb stack?

You can't use his busting out a couple of hands later as a reason why folding would have been better. That's using something that happened later and wasn't predictable to justify an earlier decision.
 
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sillymunchie

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many things to take into consideration, he had 9 9 which is a fantastic hand at that stage of an STT

also another thing to note, you reraised instead of shoved when you had less then 10BB remaining
on top of that, since you didnt have any fold equity going all in was the only option

Final thing to look at, he had 99 and shoved, you had to call with just under a 50% chance of winning
if you shove then he has to call just over 50% chance of winning
on that note, by shoving yourself, as long as you also shove A A and K K in same situation then its him whos making the mistake
either way you was at a very late stage and you needed the double up, so of course it was going all in regardless who put the chips in first
 
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Blue_Fossil

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It's a good question...I can see myself calling with 9 9 there. There are some other variables that would factor in. Was it 5 players or 6? Big difference since just 3 will get paid. Are there one or two short stacks left to act? Is there someone that had > 3000 left to act?
 
DaBrowner

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Several posts said here, you should be pushing with less than 10bb's.
 
skrsh76

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you being a short stack....wide shove range so mid pair and above will mostly call your shove or you put you all in
 
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alex5207

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If he had folded it would have cost him nothing and he could have kept on.

Anyways would any of you guys go an all in with 99 if the blinds were 100-200 and a guy pre flop raised 900? and you had around 3000 chips?

I just think his play is an unecessary risk.

He probably plays to win, and in a 9-man sng 3000 chips isn't enough to be in a good spot to take 1st since there's 13.500 chips in play. His play is actually +ev because he reraises you all-in and gets a decent amount of fold-equity and if he had your hand figured he knows that you're already a slight dog, so if you add the fold equity to his equity at around 55% he might get 60-70% equity which would make the play perfect. Since you raise to 900 utg with 1400 chips he doesn't have a lot of fold equity but still a bit if he thinks you'll figure him for a monster.

Hope this helps
 
Arjonius

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He probably plays to win, and in a 9-man sng 3000 chips isn't enough to be in a good spot to take 1st since there's 13.500 chips in play. His play is actually +ev because he reraises you all-in and gets a decent amount of fold-equity and if he had your hand figured he knows that you're already a slight dog, so if you add the fold equity to his equity at around 55% he might get 60-70% equity which would make the play perfect. Since you raise to 900 utg with 1400 chips he doesn't have a lot of fold equity but still a bit if he thinks you'll figure him for a monster.

Hope this helps
There isn't enough fold equity to consider. How often will a player with 7bb open for 4.5bb from utg and then fold to a 3bet? Close enough to 0% of the time that you can ignore the possibility.
 
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baudib1

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1. At 100/200 your open of 4.5 BBs is terrible no matter what your stack or hand is. With 7 BBs, you should just shove.
2. With 7 BBs, you should be shoving a wide range.
3. As you should be shoving a wide range, 99 is an easy shove if he's closing the action.
 
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RamdeeBen

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He made a fine shove, he has like less than 15BB you have 7bb and he has your range crushed given your stack size. I'd need a very good reason not to shove 99 here - 3x from a 7bb stack isn't one.


Without sounding to hard on you, his play is standard and better than yours. Your raise sizing here is terrible in normal circumstances but even more so with a 7bb stack. You should just be open shoving all the hands you're wanting to play.
 
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Karozi615

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He saw you make a strange raise (and realized you were pot committed) so he came over the top because he had you well covered. He showed you the best hand and you had to draw you on him, which you successfully did. It's not really a flip if its 57/43, is it? I never understood why novice players say that. I can think of a lot of virtual flips but AK vs 99 isn't one of them. We can run it a million times and it might feel like a flip but the 99 comes out way ahead.
You had 7.5 BB's. Your hand range is far wider than AK, and you were about to see the blinds. After the next two hands you would have had 6 BB's. He is very far ahead of your range and his isolating shove is +ev because you show him a worse hand the majority of the time.
When your a big stack you only call huge raises with AA and KK? well that's just terrible strategy! I think you should reevaluate your play if you see a problem with your opponents actions, completely standard IMO
 
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